Budget - Entry Level Night Vision or Infrared Recommendation

[rviray]

If I have a suppressed 10.5" 300 Blk Out AR15 for my HD and bug-out bag. I think the only thing I am missing is some night vision \ infrared capabilities. I got a light on it already, but if I wanted to do infrared or night vision, what would be a good budget friend \ entry level setup? Not looking to invest $1k or more on it, because...to be honest, it might not work for my setup. So what would you guys recommend? I'm looking for HD and not hunting...

 

[pete repete]

a thousand dollars is just entry level at best. i got my ATN THOR 4 thermal scope for about that on sale. that is VERY entry-level. i have been very happy with it for years, hunting hogs with success. but i really want to get one of the $4000 versions. i recommend thermal rather than night vision.

 

[rviray]

a thousand dollars is just entry level at best. i got my ATN THOR 4 thermal scope for about that on sale. that is VERY entry-level. i have been very happy with it for years, hunting hogs with success. but i really want to get one of the $4000 versions. i recommend thermal rather than night vision.

I've read the pros and cons of thermal rather than night vision. What are your pros and cons for either? Also, target about $1k as the entry level amount?

 

[pete repete]

yes, i dont think you can get anything of substance for a scope for less than a thousand.

my reasons are this: digital night vision, which is what we are talking about for that price, is just not as good as thermal for scopes. they see things different. night vision is enhancing the scene already there while thermal is seeing heat. since the only thing you will be interested in shooting will be emanating heat, the thermal is the best way to go. if you want to get a inexpensive digital night vision bino or monocular to see the whole scene in front of you, thats fine. that is what i have. but if you plan on shooting something, the thermal will light up the way, so to speak.

that is all my humble opinion. i dare say i may be the dumbest person you talk to today. there are others on this forum with lots of other wisdom on the matter.

 

[rviray]

yes, i dont think you can get anything of substance for a scope for less than a thousand.

my reasons are this: digital night vision, which is what we are talking about for that price, is just not as good as thermal for scopes. they see things different. night vision is enhancing the scene already there while thermal is seeing heat. since the only thing you will be interested in shooting will be emanating heat, the thermal is the best way to go. if you want to get a inexpensive digital night vision bino or monocular to see the whole scene in front of you, thats fine. that is what i have. but if you plan on shooting something, the thermal will light up the way, so to speak.

that is all my humble opinion. i dare say i may be the dumbest person you talk to today. there are others on this forum with lots of other wisdom on the matter.

I appreciate the insight....got any suggestions as far as entry level thermals that you have experience with?

 

[pete repete]

just that ATN THOR 4. the more expensive ones are much better but the THOR 4 has done me right.

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

TS-19 AGM. $800-1K. It even picks up aircraft. Granted only a 256 processing. Ive got a long ramble on it in the optics section.
Also have an atx x sight in the classified section. Fyi.

 

[rossi]

If you are thinking SHTF Scenario, I can tell you first hand from Desert Shield/Storm experience if you are using an IR Emitter, anyone using IR Goggles or also using an IR Scope will get a direct point to you just like a tracer round would. Thermal is "Totally Passive".

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

** also if the target is in cover ie. Brush and trees you won't see em. You will get some bloom from them or a partial view.( just a small bright spot)
Agm has a hot point feature that puts an + on a high heat spot. It jumps around and can be a bit distracting. Don't know what other brands have it, but does draw you eye to potential targets. Ymmv.

 

[DustyDog]

If you are thinking SHTF Scenario, I can tell you first hand from Desert Shield/Storm experience if you are using an IR Emitter, anyone using IR Goggles or also using an IR Scope will get a direct point to you just like a tracer round would. Thermal is "Totally Passive".

Bingo. I guess the only time IR night vision is handy in such a situation is if you're using it in passive mode (i.e., IR illuminator OFF) to scan for fools that have their illuminator or IR laser ON. Of course, you probably won't see much like that at any distance other than strong IR sources.

 

[DustyDog]

If I have a suppressed 10.5" 300 Blk Out AR15 for my HD and bug-out bag. I think the only thing I am missing is some night vision \ infrared capabilities. I got a light on it already, but if I wanted to do infrared or night vision, what would be a good budget friend \ entry level setup? Not looking to invest $1k or more on it, because...to be honest, it might not work for my setup. So what would you guys recommend? I'm looking for HD and not hunting...

I will say with thermals as with anything else: The more you spend, the happier you'll be. I'm totally happy with my AGM Rattler TS25-384, but would be twice as happy with the TS50-640... at twice the price, of course.

NOW: For home defense (hopefully less than 50 yds.), you want minimal magnification and shouldn't need high-res, so:

https://www.agmglobalvision.com/thermal-imaging/thermal-weapon-sights/agm-rattler-ts25-384

Base magnification on the TS25-384 is 1.5x. Curiously, on the cheaper Rattlers ($800 - $1000), the base magnification appears to be 2.5 or 3.5. which would be less desirable for close-quarters.

Thing to watch with the Rattler series: The originals (like mine) use CR123 batteries, disposable or rechargeable. The "V2" Rattlers use a proprietary rechargeable battery. I'm a fan of disposable, since I don't want to be stuck trying to recharge batteries in a pinch. However, the V2s with their proprietary (and $87/pop!) batteries do have potentially double the run-time (approx. 4.5 hr. vs. 9 hr.)

 

[DustyDog]

If I have a suppressed 10.5" 300 Blk Out AR15 for my HD and bug-out bag. I think the only thing I am missing is some night vision \ infrared capabilities. I got a light on it already, but if I wanted to do infrared or night vision, what would be a good budget friend \ entry level setup? Not looking to invest $1k or more on it, because...to be honest, it might not work for my setup. So what would you guys recommend? I'm looking for HD and not hunting...

P.S., Kenzies will take 10% off your first order if you sign up with your e-mail... it's how I got mine!

https://www.kenziesoptics.com/

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

About a 10 hour run time per charge. I use this on my ts19. $15.00 plus cable.

 

[DustyDog]

About a 10 hour run time per charge. I use this on my ts19. $15.00 plus cable.

View attachment 297935

Aha! And do you run this with the internal batteries removed? I think I asked an AGM rep this question a couple of years ago, and he wasn't sure!?!

Which reinforces my point: I prefer the original Rattlers over the V2s ($15 for your power pack vs. $87 for a proprietary V2 battery, although, you should be able to "external power" a V2 as well!), but I'm worried that AGM stopped making the originals now that the V2s are out

Do you have the latest firmware in yours? I updated mine several generations at once from the first-gen it came with over a year ago (big improvements!), but it looks like I may want to spring for the latest

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

Saw a TS-25 256 for $950 today at AA Guns in Monroeville. Only $150 more than mine cost darn it.

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

Aha! And do you run this with the internal batteries removed? I think I asked an AGM rep this question a couple of years ago, and he wasn't sure!?!

Which reinforces my point: I prefer the original Rattlers over the V2s ($15 for your power pack vs. $87 for a proprietary V2 battery, although, you should be able to "external power" a V2 as well!), but I'm worried that AGM stopped making the originals now that the V2s are out

Do you have the latest firmware in yours? I updated mine several generations at once from the first-gen it came with over a year ago (big improvements!), but it looks like I may want to spring for the latest

Don't know much about the V2's. Yes, you take the battery's out. It has a setting for normal power and rechargable batts, if using external battery leave it on normal.
The gun,pawn shop I deal with did the latest software update for me, for free.

 

[DustyDog]

Saw a TS-25 256 for $950 today at AA Guns in Monroeville. Only $150 more than mine cost darn it.

Just realize that similar thermals... or at least U.S.-made ITT scopes with similar design and capability... were closer to $20,000 just over 10 years ago!

So, yeah, prices have been trending downward. And yes, I have kicked myself for not spending the extra $200 for the TS35-384 over the TS25-384, so... it never ends!

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

Just realize that similar thermals... or at least U.S.-made ITT scopes with similar design and capability... were closer to $20,000 just over 10 years ago!

So, yeah, prices have been trending downward

Yep. The only other brand I would look at is iRay. But they are $1,700.... yikes. But you get the $1,700 worth of upgrade.
My ts19 waiting for the multiple night patrols as I type this. I use mine alot.

 

[DustyDog]

Yep. The only other brand I would look at is iRay. But they are $1,700.... yikes. But you get the $1,700 worth of upgrade.
My ts19 waiting for the multiple night patrols as I type this. I use mine alot.
View attachment 298497

I was on my prone bench last night just as it got completely dark, and had just stretched out to set up on my 100 yd. target (two 2" x 3" hand warmers), when the local fox passed about 15-20 feet in front of the muzzle.

Then, as soon as I got lined up, inserted a mag, and chambered, I noticed I had a possum(?) about 20 feet in front of the target. The first shot only cleared him by about a foot, but he didn't react at all, either to the gunshot (5.56) or to the bullet "whizzing by his ear"

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

Dang it, just saw him run off. Forgot to put out more dog food. Crap.