By the Way, Remington Owners!

[joekocon]

Last week I went round-n-round with a Rem. CS Rep! I originally asked him if I could shoot 5.56 mm out of my Rem. 700 Tactical and he said ONLY whats on the barrel (.223 rem.).
I told him in Vietnam we used Rem. 700s as sniper rifles and used mil-spec. ammo. The same reply: Only use what's stamped on the barrel!

Why would Remington sell "Tactical Weapons" (.223), and not certify them for mil-spec ammo? Sounds like a marketing strategy to sell "TACTICAL" firearms.........

Any thoughts?

I have a Saiga rifle stamped .223 and when I called the Russians they said it was due to import regs, A.K.A. "Sporting rifles", but safe to shoot 5.56 mm/

 

[Gravity3694]

Legal liability.

 

[bobinbusan]

Legal liability.

+1 Legal liability & to CTA is correct,

 

[bigbulls]

Because the rifle probably has a .223 spec chamber cut in the barrel and not a 5.56 spec chamber. If you fire actual mil spec 5.56 ammo in a .223 chamberd barrel then chamber pressures could rise well above SAAMI specs by 10K - 20K psi.

So, when someone gets hurt from shooting the wrong ammo out of their rifle and the case split and blows gasses back at the shooter Remington has their ass covered.

 

[joekocon]

Because the rifle probably has a .223 spec chamber cut in the barrel and not a 5.56 spec chamber. If you fire actual mil spec 5.56 ammo in a .223 chamberd barrel then chamber pressures could rise well above SAAMI specs by 10K - 20K psi.

So, when someone gets hurt from shooting the wrong ammo out of their rifle and the case split and blows gasses back at the shooter Remington has their ass covered.

Can you get the chamber reamed for the 5.56mm round. If not, I am sending my rifle in next week for trigger work and when it comes back, it will be for sale!

I wish I could talk to a ex sniper (RVN) to see if they remember if our old Rem 700s were marked .223 cal.

 

[bigbulls]

Sure. You can have the barrel set back one turn and rechamber in 5.56. The only difference in the chambers is the length of the throat. The 5.56 throat is longer than it is on the .223. Real mil spec 5.56 ammo is loaded to higher pressures than commercial .223 is. When you combine mil spec ammo in the short throated chamber of a .223 you get high pressures. The 5.56 bullet needs a jump start to keep pressure levels safe.

The opposite happens when you fire .223 ammo in a 5.56 chamber. Pressure levels drop and so does velocity. Many times accuracy will suffer as well.

Its like weatherby chambers and ammo. They have long throats in their rifles to let the bullet "jump" before it engages the rifling. This keeps pressure levels safe. If their chambers were cut "normal" they would have major pressure problems.

 

[joekocon]

Back in the Day! (60s-70s):
When I was handloading .308s, the "rule of thumb" was to take an empty casing, lightly hand seat the bullet of choice and chamber the round in the intended rifle. This would force the bullet against the rifling (no gap) and then push it into the casing. When you ejected the round you would have the most accurate cartridge / length for that firearm. It was thought (at that time) to be most accurate length /cartridge because the bullet was against the rifling and NO GAP was present. RESULTS: NEVER HAD a split casing, blown out primer or any other visible signs of destruction! I did this process for many rifles from Spanish Mausers (.308 / 7.62 Oh, Thats another argument!), Rems., Savages, et al. What's changed?

 

[bobinbusan]

Can you get the chamber reamed for the 5.56mm round. If not, I am sending my rifle in next week for trigger work and when it comes back, it will be for sale!

I wish I could talk to a ex sniper (RVN) to see if they remember if our old Rem 700s were marked .223 cal.

What is your problem just shooting .223?

 

[bigbulls]

Joe, nothing has changed. You were hand loading. Not shooting factory mil spec ammo.

Assume you had access to pressure testing equipment and developed a .223 load that generated an average of 55k psi (maximum for .223) and you had to seat the bullet .040" off the lands due to a long throated chamber and a more gradual transition angle from the throat to the lands.

Now stick that same load in a .040" shorter throated chamber with a sharper transition to the lands and have the bullet touching the lands and you would get considerably higher chamber pressures.

 

[joekocon]

Why? Why not!

What is your problem just shooting .223?

I have always loved bench rest shooting. Not that I have alot of expensive equipment to do it. Why should I spend $20 for a box of 20 .223 cal. hunting rounds when I can buy Federal 5.56 mm 62 grain Steel FMJ for less than half. ALSO when the SHTF, want all my equipment to match up with a minimum amount of confusion. I hope that makes sense.....at least it does to me.

 

[JSD2137]

Put on your big girl panties and run the 5.56mm just wear a cool skeleton face shield. Oh and take out another insurance policy so the kids and wifey are taken care of

 

[oneshot]

I'll buy it now, 200.00 I know you want to get rid of that dangerous rifle. I think Im right but you want have to set the barrel in just run the reamer in, the 5;56 chamber is a little bigger, and I sure hate I have to tell my Tact. Rem rifle that I just learn that I can't shoot any more 5.56 in it. after 30 plus years of it. Just my 1 cents jj

 

[Snow Bird]

My mini 14 has 223 stamped on the barrel and you read all over the net that 556 will blow it up. Well suprise the book that came with it says its safe to shoot 556 in it.

Do you have the book that came with yours? See what it says. I will give you $50 more than jj. LOL

 

[joekocon]

My mini 14 has 223 stamped on the barrel and you read all over the net that 556 will blow it up. Well suprise the book that came with it says its safe to shoot 556 in it.

Do you have the book that came with yours? See what it says. I will give you $50 more than jj. LOL

Thank you gentlemen for your generous offers (LOL!) I called Rem Arms, got an authorization to return it for a new trigger job. It's on its way! When I get it back (still a "New Rifle"), I am going to put it up for sale. After several (HOT!) conversations with them, the Remington "Position" is: .223 Cal. only! Stay tuned in for my "special pricing": New rifle, Pentax 3x9x50 mm, leupold steel rings, bypod. All for $..............

 

[bobinbusan]

While you got it in the Remington shop, why don't you get yourself a 5.56 barrel replacement on it? :hippie: :angel:

 

[joekocon]

I don't believe they offer a 5.56 barrel or they would have suggested it during our most meaningful discussions!
HEADS UP!
Is there any Vietnam era snipers or armorers on this site???? Question! The Rem 700 sniper rifles we used in Nam, were they barreled .223 or 5.56? I asked the Rem. Rep that question and the phone went "dead"..... Just curious although it's a mute point. TODAY, ON THE INTERNET, there was an article that said Remington will settle a class action lawsuit about their "triggers"....not many details.

Over-n-out!
Joe k Sr.

 

[SAWMAN]

First ..... I never laid eyes a VN era "sniper rifle" chambered in either 5.56X45 OR 223Rem. They were 7.62X51,7mmRem Mag,or 300Win Mag from what I saw.

Has anyone ever seen anything even close to a bench rest gun chambered in 5.56X45 ?? Not me. Not many in 223Rem either .... however I have seen some,these with a 10,11,or 12 twist bbl. Either is(IMO)not as inherently accurate(to bench rest standards)chambering.

I will take a 223Rem over a 5.56X45 any day. As a side note. I just got a older Bushmaster 308 ORC (AR type gun). On the bbl is sez --> "308Win". Nowhere on the gun does it say 7.62X51. As far as I am concerned ....... GREAT !! --- SAWMAN

 

[joekocon]

Thank you very much for the information! For me, as an old engineering type, I really appreciate understanding "the whole story", history, facts.

 

[joekocon]

Sawman! Still thinking.......... Do you remember.....Was the rem (M40?) rifle barrel stamped .308 or 7.62? That's basically the same arguement: 7.62 vs .308? (I think).

Have a nice day!
Joe K Sr.

 

[FrankT]

Joe the 308-7.62 is the opposite of the 223-556 argument. Where the 556 has higher pressures the 7.62 has lower so it is safe in a 308 barrel.