steve
Marksman
http://www.northescambia.com/2013/05/escambia-man-indicted-on-federal-firearm-charges
Hope he wasn't a forum member???
Hope he wasn't a forum member???
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Escambia Man Indicted On Federal Firearm Charge
- Thread starter steve
- Start date
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shootnstarz
Master
Ever notice when a news article appears on an event that you know the facts, the article always has much incorrect information. Transfer this to the articles that you don't know the facts and ...............................................
Rick
Rick
steve
Marksman
I only posted a link to a local story. I don't know any of the facts involved with this, only what was reported. (I can't figure out what you are trying to say with the second sentence.)
FrankT
6.8 SPCII Hog Slayer
So this was you Starz? or someone you know? forum member?
flyandscuba
Master
Buddy used to be at the Pensacola and Milton guns shows with a table -- a very sociable guy. I bought a couple of things from him. Interestingly, at a least one of the Pensacola shows -- the ATF was set up at the table right next to him.
I don't think he was a member of GCGF -- but I do think he was on the PFF. This may be part of the reason for them banning firearms sales.
The story I heard was that the ATF had a felon (could be someone working with them to get their rights restored) or someone posing as a felon wearing a wire. He arranged to work a deal with Buddy in the parking lot of the gun show for several guns at one time. Either Buddy failed to "ask the right questions" or knowingly sold to someone who indicated they were prohibited from possessing a firearm.
To make matters worse -- when the ATF went to his house to secure and remove his firearm collection, they discovered drugs that his adult son had brought into the house when he moved back in...not a good situation.
All the above is heresay -- because I didn't speak with Buddy, only heard the information second or third hand. I suspect the true situation/story may be somewhat different.
The lesson here -- only sell to residents of your same state, and ask them if they are legally able to own and possess firearms before doing the deal.
I don't think he was a member of GCGF -- but I do think he was on the PFF. This may be part of the reason for them banning firearms sales.
The story I heard was that the ATF had a felon (could be someone working with them to get their rights restored) or someone posing as a felon wearing a wire. He arranged to work a deal with Buddy in the parking lot of the gun show for several guns at one time. Either Buddy failed to "ask the right questions" or knowingly sold to someone who indicated they were prohibited from possessing a firearm.
To make matters worse -- when the ATF went to his house to secure and remove his firearm collection, they discovered drugs that his adult son had brought into the house when he moved back in...not a good situation.
All the above is heresay -- because I didn't speak with Buddy, only heard the information second or third hand. I suspect the true situation/story may be somewhat different.
The lesson here -- only sell to residents of your same state, and ask them if they are legally able to own and possess firearms before doing the deal.
Patoz
Marksman
Not only do I ask them if they are legal to buy or sell, I require them to fill out and sign this form. No form - no sale!! I don't believe this is an ATF form since there is no form number and date, but its better than just somebody saying they're legal.
RECORD of FIREARMS TRANSFER BETWEEN UNLICENSED PERSONS
http://www.beararms.com/PDF/FTUP.pdf
NOTE: The ATF link at the bottom of the form no longer works since they upgraded their website. When you click on it, it will take you to a page that states:
RECORD of FIREARMS TRANSFER BETWEEN UNLICENSED PERSONS
http://www.beararms.com/PDF/FTUP.pdf
NOTE: The ATF link at the bottom of the form no longer works since they upgraded their website. When you click on it, it will take you to a page that states:
flyandscuba
Master
I don't require a bill of sale - it really does nothing for the seller. However, I will do one if the buyer requests it (rarely, if ever do they make that request).
bkitzel250
Expert
I will usually write up a bill of sale mainly for myself if I'm selling my firearm just to prove I sold it if law enforcement showed up ( highly unlikely but you never know who your selling too). What's the point of asking if they are legal? If they are a felon and they have at least a tad bit of common sense they would lie about it right?
Telum Pisces
Master
It's only against the law if you knowingly sell to a person that is prohibited. It's not against the law to simply exchange money and say have a nice day. The issue comes up when the buyer usually hints at the fact that they cannot own or purchase a firearm through other (legal) means. Then you are obligated to end the sale immediately.
These sting type operations usually has the buyer mention that they are a felon or are restricted from purchasing a firearm at a shop etc... If the seller continues, bam, they got ya.
It's not up to me to determine if you are going to use the metal object to do harm or commit a crime with it. I don't ask you if you have a license before I sell you a car and watch you drive away. You have money and drive away. It's up to you to follow the laws. It's not my job to baby sit others.
FrankT
6.8 SPCII Hog Slayer
TP, that is correct, so is this the same member here that was being looked at? Just stoopid, to sell to someone who says they cannot legally buy a weapon...he should be in trouble for being dumb!
shootnstarz
Master
No, wasn't me or anybody I know. I guess it came off like I did. I just know how the facts get so distorted, starting with the public servant's written report and going on to the news reports.
Rick
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1956_4x4
Expert
Just curious, what constitutes the need for a FFL? Is it the number of guns that are being sold? Does one have to own the guns for a certain amount of time before they no longer require a FFL?
Smitty
Smitty
steve
Marksman
A FFL is a Federal Firearms License. Usually only dealers will go through the trouble to get an FFL. We (Non-FFL holders) use FFL holders to complete transactions that are required by law to use. For example, If you order a firearm from out of state the firearm gets shipped from seller to FFL holder. When you go to pick up your firearm the FFL holder does the paperwork and calls FDLE to do background check. FFL holder charges a small fee for the trouble and has to keep all associated paperwork for some period of time. There are FFL holders that are forum members that can answer your questions much better than I but that is a quick explanation.
1956_4x4
Expert
Thanks for the reply. I understand what an FFL is and how it is used. Lets say that I had 200 (a number pulled out of the air...) guns that I decided to sell. These guns would have gone up in value over the years, so there would be profit involved. The guns would only be sold to residents of my state, so there would be no interstate commerce involved. Would there ever be a legal requirement to go through someone with an FFL for the sales under the conditions listed above? Is there a number involved that requires an FFL to complete the transaction?
I'm just wondering because I read something about this and they seemed to key in on numbers and the fact that the items were being sold for a profit. I don't tend to sell my guns, but if I did there would be profit involved.
Smitty
steve
Marksman
I met an older guy a few months ago that had an ankle GPS tracker. I asked what that was all about and he told me an interesting story...
He said he had a gun collection that he decided to sell so he took them to the flea market and set up. After a couple weekends of selling HIS lawfully obtained and completely legit firearms, he was arrested by the ATF. His house was searched and everything firearm related was taken (including his Guns and Ammo magazines!). He spent five years in federal prison and was on house arrest for another five years. His story was that the Patriot Act says you can only sell two firearms per year without using an FFL. More than two, you must let an FFL sell them for you.
I don't know if any of this is true or complete BS, but that's his story. As I said, there are several FFL holders here that can answer your questions with authority but I thought the old man's story was worth repeating.
He said he had a gun collection that he decided to sell so he took them to the flea market and set up. After a couple weekends of selling HIS lawfully obtained and completely legit firearms, he was arrested by the ATF. His house was searched and everything firearm related was taken (including his Guns and Ammo magazines!). He spent five years in federal prison and was on house arrest for another five years. His story was that the Patriot Act says you can only sell two firearms per year without using an FFL. More than two, you must let an FFL sell them for you.
I don't know if any of this is true or complete BS, but that's his story. As I said, there are several FFL holders here that can answer your questions with authority but I thought the old man's story was worth repeating.
TURTLE
Marksman
Go on the PFF and look for a thread titled " Savages" and I believe you will see why Firearms sales were stopped on there. I don't know how or why there are so many Liberals around here but they all seem to be on the PFF. I expect to be banned shortly, lol.
PS, I love it here!
Hopin4aboat
Expert
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2012
- Messages
- 229
- Points
- 18
Locked and moved what did you write to have it locked that fast?
RedcedarHunter
Marksman
Link?
Garpo
Master
Seanpcola
Moderator
I don't think so. Someone else mentioned the Savages thread on PFF and I tried to find it. When I did it said "moved" and when I tried to view the thread it said I didn't have permission. Don't know what that's about since my account seems to be OK. I haven't posted anything on there since the day I joined this site so maybe it's because I'm not active?
