Trapdoor

[ls1_guru]

Probably the oldest one in my collection and I have the ammo to use with it, haven't shot it yet but it's in about 95%+ shape so no doubt on function. Barrel looks nice, I wanted to get in on one that wasn't black powder. Posting to discuss, some history here.

Springfield Cadet Rifle, model 1884, made in 1890, cal 45/70 Govt. I have some original ammo pouches and the bayonet also. Hammer action is from an 1873 model.

 

[mac the knife]

I have an 1873 model In 45/70 . They are fun to shoot. I reload my own ammo and use smokeless powder.
DO Not use modern ammo in these ,you will destroy it !
I also have a really nice cut down Carbine version,Very professionaly done (Beautiful)
Yours has the Buffington adjustable rear sight,A great improvement over fixed sights.
Thats a really nice looking rifle.

 

[ls1_guru]

Thanks, the Buffington Sights were the upgrade for these. I have the right cowboy loads to use in this.

 

[Boogan1]

I have an 1884 also. Would you care to share what smokeless load you are using?

 

[FrommerStop]

There was and likely still is a light 405 smokeless powder load that duplicates the original carbine load of the black powder 405 grain behind IIRC 50 grain black powder load that has velocities a little over 1,000 fps.
I have fired that commercial Remington load and it is a mild one relative to recoil. it is advertised I see to give 1330 fps second.
20 Round Box

Features and Specifications:
Manufacturer Number: R4570G
Caliber: .45-70 Government
Bullet Type: Core-Lokt Soft Point
Bullet Weight: 405 Grains
Rounds: 20 per Box
Muzzle Velocity: 1330 fps
Bullet Diameter: .458
Muzzle Energy: 1590 ft/lbs
Jacket Material: Copper
Core Material: Lead
Tip Material: Lead
Ballistic Coefficient: .281
Casing: Brass

Uses: Medium to Large Thin Skinned Game

 

[Daezee]

I have an 1884 also. Would you care to share what smokeless load you are using?

I don't have a trapdoor, but enjoy shooting single shot rifles. My Danish rolling block is in 11.7x51R. It is similar to the 45/70, but the case is about 1/10" shorter. Some Danes can use 45/70 brass as-is (mine doesn't). Mild trapdoor 45/70 data is used. I use the Lee 450-405 hollow base mold with 20/1 alloy giving bullets that weight 395gr. That mold was designed for the trapdoor. Cast of soft alloy, the combination of soft alloy and hollow base allow the bullet to expand to fill the grooves of the trapdoors that can have varying groove diameters. My particular Danish has a groove diameter of .462". My bullets, as cast, are .462". I pan lube with no sizing and use 50/50 lube. I use 12.0gr Unique giving 1113fps at 10' from the muzzle. Easy on the brass, gun, and me. No fillers are needed or used. Somewhere between 11 and 13 grains of Unique ought to do fine.

 

[ls1_guru]

When I bought the rifle the guy gave me a box of these..

 

[DixieReb]

I’ve got an 1863 Springfield with the Allen conversion to 50-70 govt, bought it at a pawn shop in Montgomery about 5 years ago for $274 tax and all out the door. It had been on the rack I know three years and I had asked what it was one time and told it was an old muzzleloader, well the day I asked to see it up close and it was handed to me I bought it on the spot, they had it so long and could not sell it and didn’t know what it was. I knew immediately what it was when the guy handed it to me over the counter, thought it was a 45-70 till I got home with it and put a 45-70 cartridge in it and it was too small, took it to local gunsmith and he verified it was 50 cal

 

[USAF Sarge]

Sweet rifles there guys. Don't have one of these yet, but I'll get one eventually. I just recently started getting into older milsurps. I've got only a few pre 1900s weapons so far.

1863 Snider Enfield P1853 Mk II** Afghanistan Bringback
1874-1876 Remington Egyptian M1868 No 1 Rolling Block
1879 Waffen Fabrik Bern Swiss Vetterli Model 1869/71
1890 Danzig Commission Rifle Model 1888 aka Gew 88
1894/1927 Izhevsk/Tikkakoski/Mosin-Nagant Model 1891
1894-1896 Oviedo/Mauser (Spanish) Model 1893

 

[DixieReb]

Nice collection you have there USAF Sarge , I’ve got several old Remington rolling blocks, and other civil war firearms and a Krag-Jorgensen, and an old Charleville musket, it’s an addiction finding these things, several old Mausers in my possession too

 

[USAF Sarge]

Nice collection you have there USAF Sarge , I’ve got several old Remington rolling blocks, and other civil war firearms and a Krag-Jorgensen, and an old Charleville musket, it’s an addiction finding these things, several old Mausers in my possession too

Thank you, those are just the pre 1900 ones. Do you have an No 1 Rolling Block?

 

[DixieReb]

I believe I do have one, fixing to turn in for the night, I’ll look tomorrow evening when I get in from work, got an old chifforobe stacked full of old milsurp rifles, it’s not for sale though !

 

[ls1_guru]

I’ve got an 1863 Springfield with the Allen conversion to 50-70 govt, bought it at a pawn shop in Montgomery about 5 years ago for $274 tax and all out the door. It had been on the rack I know three years and I had asked what it was one time and told it was an old muzzleloader, well the day I asked to see it up close and it was handed to me I bought it on the spot, they had it so long and could not sell it and didn’t know what it was. I knew immediately what it was when the guy handed it to me over the counter, thought it was a 45-70 till I got home with it and put a 45-70 cartridge in it and it was too small, took it to local gunsmith and he verified it was 50 cal

I've seen one of them, and some of them are worth some money being the original conversions.

Sweet rifles there guys. Don't have one of these yet, but I'll get one eventually. I just recently started getting into older milsurps. I've got only a few pre 1900s weapons so far.

1863 Snider Enfield P1853 Mk II** Afghanistan Bringback
1874-1876 Remington Egyptian M1868 No 1 Rolling Block
1879 Waffen Fabrik Bern Swiss Vetterli Model 1869/71
1890 Danzig Commission Rifle Model 1888 aka Gew 88
1894/1927 Izhevsk/Tikkakoski/Mosin-Nagant Model 1891
1894-1896 Oviedo/Mauser (Spanish) Model 1893

Nice collection of old ones there, the old Russian Mosins made in the Imperial days (pre 1917) are neat to find, I don't have one of them but I have a Finnish M39 that has a bunch of the old parts from the Imperial Russian stuff. The stamps all over it are neat to see.

 

[Plinker]

Sure enjoy mine!
A joy to shoot with reduced loads.

NOT a joy to shoot with 500gr. pills and my old shoulder.

Puts them right in there at 50 yds so I took it hunting,,,,,,,,,,but didn’t get a shot.......

 

[Daezee]

Say one would like to own a 45/70 Trapdoor and shoot it. Are there particular models that would be desirable for such activities?

 

[ls1_guru]

From my research and what they are, the cadet rifles. They weren't fielded, only used for drill and small training.

 

[DixieReb]

Thank you, those are just the pre 1900 ones. Do you have an No 1 Rolling Block?

Sarge, I have just got home , I’m going to have to pull about 30 rifles out to get to the rolling blocks I have to see exactly what I have got, will report back later, I’ve got one in a carbine of unknown caliber that looks like a Calvary rifle , I need somebody to tell me what it is. Will try to get some pics posted later on. Just got in from Crestview FL , went down to buy some ammunition from a member of this forum.

 

[Plinker]

Say one would like to own a 45/70 Trapdoor and shoot it. Are there particular models that would be desirable for such activities?

What Carguy says is also my understanding.
Good looking cadet models are not too difficult to find.

A good looking carbine is another matter and can be extremely pricey.

When Keith Rush was alive and running Trapdoors Galore in Las Vegas, he supplied me a taller front sight for my cadet model (Rick Rankin installed it) and that lowered the impact to point of aim=point of impact.
Still have original front sight put away.

Also have the bayonet,,but not the frog for the bayonet.

A little video of Mr. Rush and what he had:

 

[USAF Sarge]

I always have my eyes open for "Old" milsurps when we are out and about. Problem I see lately is that not only are modern gun prices going up, but so are old guns. Hell the selling price not asking price for Mosin Nagants M91/30s are up there.

M91/30's sold on GB:

1933 Izhevsk $800.00
1935 Tula $755.00
1942 Izhevsk $695.00
1943 Izhevsk $660.00

 

[ls1_guru]

They are selling for that right now?

I see the ones on there going for the 3-4 range.. the M39 I would expect to go for double that.