Holy Cr@p!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[outside9]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/23/us-usa-california-shooting-idUSBRE99M0VU20131023

It is a terrible thing that happened, but check out this reply at bottom.

Some people are just beyond stupid...


Oct 23, 2013 1:47pm EDT -- Report as abuse


petty4lyfe wrote:

You would think since our military has a standard of not firing unless fired upon, our police department standard would be same if not even stiffer, since when do cops get more power then the military and get to fire at will

 

[kidsoncoffee]

Just some more trigger happy untrained shit head cops. It happens when you give sociopaths firearms and a badge.

 

[donr101395]

That is what happens when you train entire generations of people to think guns are bad and therefore anyone holding something that looks like a gun is bad.

 

[FrankT]

See it does not just happen in Pensacola/Escambia cty, there are other poorly trained officers, sorry, could not help myself.

 

[Little Jack]

Cops have a dangerous job. All of them are constantly in the sights of the armed public. They need to be militarized because there job is so dangerous. Shoot first so you can go home. Disregard your job as a public servant, (ie to protect civilians) and assume that everyone is a criminal.

http://reason.com/blog/2012/04/11/is-the-increasing-number-of-cops-killed

 

[FrankT]

yeah common sense and training go a long way, too many rambo wannabees in the LEO field...remember these are the same people who if /when ordered will come and take away your guns and you pay their salaries. You earn my respect, it is not freely give because of the job you have.

 

[kidsoncoffee]

The police are already over militarized. No good can come to them having that much power and zero accountability. These cops are getting a paid vacation and you can bet your ass no charges will be brought on their negligent actions. The sheeple need to wake up and realize that we're slowly becoming a police state. SCOTUS has already ruled that they have no obligation to protect.

 

[kidsoncoffee]

wonder if they'd call in swat?

 

[outside9]

Wow, this post went a different direction fast. Didn't realize there were so many anti law enforcement on here. Maybe you need to take another look at that toy gun on the ground, doesn't look anything like the ones in the photo you posted.

As far as the kid being 13, I have a 20 year old who was 6'0 tall and could grow facial hair at that age.

 

[kidsoncoffee]

Gonna go out on a limb here and say thats appears to be a stock photo with disks showing spent casings, not a toy gun

 

[MarkS]

The orange disc are numbered like the ones used to mark empty casings so I would think stock photo. The article said the kid landed on to of the pellet gun and it would of been bagged and tagged as evidence. A lot of good cops in my family but the Rambo wanna be's give them all a bad name.

 

[flyandscuba]

It's definitely a toy in the photo -- look at the screws holding the two halves of the stock together. With that said, it should have had an orange muzzle to identify it as a toy. It could have been removed -- making it look more "real".

While tragic, we have no idea what transpired before the first officer pulled the trigger. The "reasonableness" test will be applied in this situation. If the child refused to drop the replica when ordered, and/or made an aggressive action with it towards the officers -- could you expect that another pair of officers would "reasonably" react in the same way.

If the child was responding as ordered and did not make any form of aggressive action with the toy, I'd have to say it is a bad shooting.

It's a Catch 22 situation for sure. I'm sure the officers are reliving the situation in their minds constantly -- and I hope that they are getting the proper CISD support no matter how the investigation goes.

It would be interesting to know how many times these officers go to the range every year. I still work with all too many agencies who only conduct ONE use-of-force training and qualification session each year. Qualification does not equate to proficiency. Neither is a qualification course that involves only shooting at a static paper target with a "politically correct" orange or blue human silhouette... Training/qualification should include low light conditions, "stress fire" (ooops, where's El Capitain!) conditions involving shoot/don't shoot decisions, and shooting on the move -- at moving targets.

The "best" practice for ensuring proficiency of LEOs in the use of deadly force is a minimum of quarterly training. Does ECSO or PPD conduct training at that frequency??

 

[Little Jack]

I'm not anti LEO. I'm anti "us vs them".

The growing trend seems to be a shift towards officer safety over that of the Public Safety. I disagree with that.

Not sure how it started but there seems to be an indoctrination that a LEOs life is on the line more than most. I don't disagree that there are dangerous situations that may occur in their line of work. But stats indicate there are several more jobs (more mundane and harder to sensationalize) that are more dangerous than LEO. The idea that they are in "more" danger than anyone else turns into the reasoning that they have to do what they can to ensure nothing bad happens to them. The article I linked earlier indicates that there is an over compensation on the part of the LEOs. I can't articulate completely/clearly via this medium so please do not take my relatively short post as aloofness. If you decided to come by the shop again, I'll gladly discuss further.

I truly believe that being an LEO is a hard job and I'm greatful for the LEOs I come across that see their job as a public SERVICE and do what they can to SERVE and PROTECT. I'm not trying to marginalize the LEO job and I'm aware that there are a wide range of climates in the US in which LEO serves, some safer than others. No stat holds true for all situations.

 

[BigDaddy]

From what I read, it was an replica. It was not a functional gun at all. It was just a wall hanger or training gun. I bet there is more to the story. Tragic for all involved to say the least.

 

[flyandscuba]

I'm not anti LEO. I'm anti "us vs them".

Not sure how it started but there seems to be an indoctrination that a LEOs life is on the line more than most. I don't disagree that there are dangerous situations that may occur in their line of work. But stats indicate there are several more jobs (more mundane and harder to sensationalize) that are more dangerous than LEO.

LEOs don't even make the Top 10 Most Dangerous Jobs:

The 10 Deadliest Jobs:

1. Logging workers
2. Fishers and related fishing workers
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers
4. Roofers
5. Structural iron and steel workers
6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers
9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
10. Construction laborers

According to the BLS.

In 1995 - LEOs made #6 on the list (in terms of total number of fatalities), however more than a third of their fatalities were due to vehicle collisions and not violence... In terms of fatality RATE -- LEOs don't make the top 10 list.

http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfar0020.pdf

Things haven't changed in the 2012 study...

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf

 

[outside9]

All I'm saying is, no one should have to be shot at before they shoot.

I agree, there are some bad, but a lot more good.

 

[Stanley13]

U know I would really love nothing more than to make a bad joke about Pigs but since a child was killed none of my bad edicate would b waranted so how about we just start another thread to bash COPS???

 

[FrankT]

This action and thread is about cops, bad? I don't know too many that go around killing people...saying that there was a serious lack of common sense and training obvious here. God Rest this Childs Soul!

 

[donr101395]

All I'm saying is, no one should have to be shot at before they shoot.

There is no way I would agree with that, because I won't hold myself to that standard. Only a fool or an idiot would let someone take free shots at them in order to be "fair".

 

[TURTLE]

My son has an airsoft AK that until you look very close you can't tell it's a toy. All metal and real wood. One of the replies was " Why would a kid be playing with a toy gun? Should he be playing Call Of Duty on Xbox or something?" How many of you guys DIDN'T play with some kind of toy gun growing up?