Interacting with LEO

[Fletch]

In the other thread about the sword shooting TraderDan mentioned the police being on edge lately and how not running would be wise. It got me to thinking about a little incident last summer but I didn't want clog up a thread with it so here it is.

I had a little LEO encounter last summer in a restaurant parking lot with some cops on edge and we were all white as we could be. Long story short a guy in my party had words with another customer and a shoving match ensued. Our entire group of 10 was asked to leave. Kind of funny in retrospect because my party was a bunch of polo wearing yuppies. A lawyer, a few self-employed guys, salesmen, etc.

As we walk into the parking lot a patty wagon is just pulling in and cruisers come flying up out of every direction. They came out screaming STOP with their hands on their guns. A few in my party kept walking which was not appreciated! My hands were up immediately and my mouth was shut! Turns out somehow the call that went in to the police claimed someone stated they had a gun. We didn't know the context in which the cops were arriving with GUN on their minds thus the edge they all seemed to be on. No one ever mentioned a gun on either side of the altercation. Not sure why it was claimed by someone not even involved but it never occurred yet had the responding police on edge.

Staying calm, keeping my mouth shut, and hands up and visible I was pulled aside by an officer and asked about the altercation and if a gun was involved. Not that race should matter but the cop who pulled me aside was the lone black guy and he was the calmest most professional one of the bunch. It was one of the few times I was not actually carrying and kind of was happy about it in retrospect. Not sure how well my answer of you know in fact I just happen to have a gun holstered in my waistband, but no worries because I have a permit and I dang sure didn't make any claims of having one or using it out loud. In fact I never even got out of my chair and was just thinking how stupid both of them were and can't believe they guy in my party let himself be goaded into it.

I did nothing wrong and would have been completely legal and within my rights but I have the sense that if I would have mentioned having a gun I would have been on the pavement rather quickly legal or not. I wondered in retrospect what I would have said if carrying that night. I was never frisked or asked specifically if I was armed. Just asked if I knew anything about someone having a gun and threatening to use it. Do I just volunteer the info and hope they are understanding. Or what if I didn't and then they frisk me and find it and immediately think I'm being dishonest and there is truth to the claim someone made about the gun and I'm obviously suspect #1 since they just found a gun on me?

Last group of people I would have ever expected to be with and be involved in any sort of altercation. Not that I was involved other than showing up with them. I could visibly see how edgy the cops were and one in particular had me nervous to be honest. Edgy cops thinking gun and a dark parking lot is not a good situation and bad things could happen. It's not beyond the stretch of my imagination that one, especially the nervous one acting out, could have mistaken a hand movement or something else as a weapon and then well......

First time I've really been on the receiving end of something like that and I understand where they were coming from but it was nerve wracking none the less. I instinctively knew to not argue, be combative, or make any sudden movements, much less run. They would not have been justified in gunning me down if I did but as edgy as the one was it's not out of the realm of possibilities that it might have happened. Not that I ever would just run in that situation mind you. Don't understand why someone would but maybe from the perspective of a black man with some negative police encounters in the past maybe I would be legitimately fearful for my life in my mind and go into fight or flight.

One in our party was a little too mouthy and condescending to the officers which was close to having us all thrown in the patty wagon. I would have thought he would have taken a cue from our lawyer in the group who hadn't said a freaking word and certainly didn't volunteer to them he was in fact a lawyer. I was thinking just STFU when the lawyer in our group did calmly state to our mouthy friend: "maybe you should be quiet and let this nice gentleman do his job". He didn't think the police were being nice gentleman by any stretch but he wasn't about to call them out on it or pull the I'm a lawyer card. He knew you don't win an argument with a cop in the street....EVER! If you are being wronged save it for the courtroom and judge if need be.

 

[Stanley13]

Should have punch the biggest one, right in the p*ssy!!! Safety Second

 

[madeSICC88]

Ive had a few interactions with cops from my teenage years, Ive been arrested a few times, mostly from fights at parties and a couple times from stealing CDs and such (Yes i was a shit head of a teen), During a lot of these incidents i wasnt alone, and my friends where getting the same charges as i was, the only difference was that I would always comply with the cops and keep my mouth shut and answer truthfully whether it was to my benefit or not, and most of the time i got to drive home or when i was to young to drive they would have my mom pick me up. My friends on the other hand would be getting a ride to JD and have a nice date in court to dress up for. It was always fun waving at them as they got drove away and i would be free to walk.

 

[Little Jack]

Should have punch the biggest one, right in the p*ssy!!! Safety Second

Especially if it was another white guy. After you punched him raise up your arms and yell "WHITE POWER!!"

Let them figure that one out.

Sharpton would be down here for a week before he figured out there wasn't enough to get people riled up about. The media would report it as a Male White Caucausian punched another Male White Caucasian..... I mean Male White Hispanic. RACISM!!

Seriously though. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that everytime you intereact with a cop, they assume you're armed until you can prove otherwise. I understand they have a tough job but it's the one they signed up for. The stats indicate that the citizenry have more to fear from the cops than the other way around.

 

[Seanpcola]

Note to self: Don't meet Stanley out for dinner.

Jk.


Excellent story Fletch. Yep, Quiet, courteous and calm is about the best you can do in that situation. I agree that being white is most likely an advantage in those situations. Fortunately, my encounters with LEOs have been professional and calm. I did get pulled over once with my step brother in the car when we were teenagers. He started mouthing to the cop about "hassling us". I reached over and clamped his mouth shut with my right hand, hard enough he had tears coming out and apologized to the officer who laughed at the whole thing.

 

[Fletch]

Should have punch the biggest one, right in the p*ssy!!! Safety Second

Yea that would have diffused the situation!

What is it with you short guys? The one who bucked up and got into the shoving/wraslin' match was the shortest of our bunch. Probably about 5'4" 150 pounds. His opponent was easily a portly 290 and 6 foot or so. In our guy's defense he did go have a double jack & coke at the bar and watch UFC while the table was being readied.




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[bac3996]

Having been an officer, I see things a bit different. A lot of places that have a fight starting up and see punches flying want to protect both their patrons and their own investment.

So when the 911 call is made it's done so that the establishment gets the quickest and most coverage and with that being said there's always the mention of firearms or weapons to ensure a quicker response in the callers opinion.

I totally understand most want to not be involved and figure if they just walk away disregarding an officers commands that they have that right since they were not involved.

But what few seem to realize is the officer not only need the ones actually involved in the confrontation they need witnesses to verify exactly what happened.

In most every officer involved shooting I've heard about lately someone was disregarding an officers directive. When told to stop, STOP when asked to ID yourself do so.

And no I don't think an officer has the right to shoot you if you fail to do as you are asked. But I do think they do have the right to protect themselves.

An officer arrives to a situation only with what little information that's provided to the dispatchers. They have the right to come prepared for the worst and from there evaluate the scene. Unfortunately most citizens don't understand what it's like coming into something you think your prepared for only to find out your very limited.

In the years I was an officer I hope and I did my best to show respect to those that showed me respect.

I find it hard to feel sorry for those that don't offer or show respect for the one's you call when you can't handle the problem.

The key is RESPECT, you don't have to like or even agree with an officer but respect will go a long way. He has a job to do and a certain way and order he needs to do it. May not be your way but it's his way. He most likely doesn't come tell you how to

 

[mikenjapan]

I agree with the respect. I have had several interactions with the local police while carrying my gun. I have never had any issues because I always let them know right away that I have a permit, have my weapon on me, keep my hands up and make no fast moves, etc. I even had one cop tell me "if you don't pull yours, I won't pull mine". If you want to be treated with respect, you must show respect.

 

[Fletch]

Completely agree about respect. As with most things a few bad apples ruin it for the majority that is honest, respectful, and just trying to do their job. If every interaction one has had with Law Enforcement is negative I only say this:

If you meet an asshole in the morning you just met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day then........you're the asshole!




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[brasshog]

I treat our LEO's with respect even if I'm in the wrong. If I get pulled over for speeding and he asks "Do you know why I pulled you over" I tell him "Yep...because my dumbass was speeding". The few times that I have been pulled over I have always complied with the officer and inform him of my weapon in a completely non alarming manner such as having my permit in hand if possible. Fortunately I have never had an issue with any LEO. I have had some safety issues with them. After giving permission to the officer for removal of the weapon he unloaded it, ran the numbers, loaded it back up, and proceeded to hand me the weapon grip first holding it by the barrel. I have had a real ass of a cop pull me over for a tag light out. I was nice to him and when he asked if I had a weapon I was honest and said yes. He didn't even ask for my permit and thanked me for being honest. He did however give me a $68 ticket lol.

I have had to use a firearm in self defense in milton and when the responding police (Officer Charlie Gates and another officer) arrived they expected to find a body. They knew my address and have been invited to supper a time or two. However, a rookie showed up and was a total ass. He was determined to take "the SOB with a gun to jail". Luckily the two officers that got there first were cool headed. They set him straight and called for an ambulance. The interesting thing is that there were many many witnesses that were mostly underage teenagers that were intoxicated. I'm sure that the 911 personnel got several different stories all at once from several callers. I can only assume that the rookie was going off of this info. When asked they all had different problems remembering what the gun looked like. It's funny how a stainless 1911 becomes an blued eight inch barreled revolver, a 100% sure it's a S&W 9mm like daddy's, and everything else under the sun. Btw I did not shoot the individual. A party of 20+ idiots found it's way into the street in front of my house. My landlord came over to tell them to leave. Several youth jumped on my landlord and began beating him as the crowd cheered it on. I assisted him. The leader of the party threatened me several times as he stood in my yard saying with a motion "I'm gonna cut your damn throat". He pulled a knife. It wasn't safe to discharge the weapon so I pistol whipped him and down he went. I used to be an instructor for that technique. This is why I dislike poly framed guns lol. Btw...even though I haven't rented from that landlord in almost twenty years he, his father, and his son still come by often.

Fletch...you did well and it's best to keep a cool head and be honest with responding LEO's. A pissing contest or lying will get you nowhere. After pulling MP duty down south I have even more respect for them.

 

[John B.]

I had one altercation with an Officer about 5 years ago, while looking at a piece of hunting property in Holt that we had just leased. We had checked one side of the property, and went to eat at the gas station... we were looking for other ways to access the east side of the property, and went down a named road, past one house, and it dead ends in to our newly acquired property. We had been walking around a big clay pit, when I saw someone in green shorts and a white Polo come down the lip of the pit... keep in mind it's July, and hot as balls... as soon as he got within a distance that he could here me, and I realized it was an Okaloosa county deputy, I said "hey, how's it going?"

About that time he drew down on us (we were in shorts and T-shirts and didn't have a rifle with us, obviously we could have had a concealed firearm, but we didn't) and told us to get down on our stomachs.

Now, I'm not sure if it was the gas station corndogs, or the Glock aimed at my dome, but I'm pretty sure I shit myself...

I really couldn't believe that he came on our property, and drew down on us for allegedly "trespassing" on our on property. (Called in by the house we passed?)

I got a little lippy, and told him that I wasn't getting down on my stomach, as I was standing in a pretty muddy section of the pit, and wasn't about to get dirty... he didn't like that. I walked backwards with my hands on my head until I was in a dry spot and complied with his request.

He ran our IDs, we walked back to the truck and showed him our lease agreement, and he was on his way...

At the time, I didn't think anything about it, but looking back I wish I would have pushed to have that action looked in to more.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

I have only had one altercation and that was with a officer when I was open carrying during a day of redfishing but by the end he apologized but every other officer I have encountered treated me with respect. Also I have had a few let me off on a ticket. Just treat them like any other person. Of course there are a few dick heads out there but the majority are stand up guys from what I have met. Thanks to those guys I never have had a ticket. I almost got a ticket for doing 55 in a 35 but the state trooper wrote me up for not having proof of insurance ($10) and chatted about my LCP in my center console and just kept going on about how he wanted one. Now I have learned my lesson and drive dead on with the speed limit. My dad and girlfriend both say I drive like a grandpa :tongue1:

 

[moron1]

With all the traffic lights, speeding won't get you anywhere much faster then if you drive the speed limit. It can cost a person a few days pay so what is the purpose of it? I used to speed a lot when I was younger (going to work,ect.) until I found it less stressful and easier to just give myself enough time to get there.

 

[Seanpcola]

I've never been a speeder. I loved fast cars but I picked my spots.

 

[DSPLCD1]

I've never been a speeder. I loved fast cars but I picked my spots.

You sir are correct. When opportunity knocks, you have to put the pedal to the metal!!!!