Old Vet to New Vet?

[M118LR]

So the Son-in-law is a four tour I/A Vet, and I've got a few campaigns under my belt prior to his exploits.
Now while we were having a conversation/debate about defunding the police he decided he needed to jump up off the couch and attempt to choke me to death. So I might have screwed up his thumbs & hands a bit while they were affixed to my throat. But I'm more concerned about what I've done to his Combat Physie? How's he supposed to do the last 8 years of his career knowing that he couldn't take out a Senior Citizen from an unsuspecting defenseless position with a 65 lb advantage? Better yet, I told him he needed a little help with alcohol since perhaps his wife & children may not have fared so well if he decided they needed to be attacked after a couple of beers. I'm not a tea toter! But he is the first vet I've told that they need to seek help.

Am I Wrong????????

 

[Fear21]

Yep, he needs some help, stat. That ain't right.

 

[fl57caveman]

he would have been needing to seek help allright, medical help for the contusions on his face...

 

[M118LR]

he would have been needing to seek help allright, medical help for the contusions on his face...

I asked those family members that pull him off me not to hurt him. It's my opinion that you don't hurt the family that supports & loves you. About contusions, somehow every member of the family involved other than I had them. Yet My spouse doesn't have an understanding of why I'm happy to have not inflicted any harm upon him? Like I'm supposed to allow him to choke me out?

 

[Snake-Eyes]

If you're serious that your son-in-law tried to choke you while he was under the influence of alcohol, and it took a few people to remove him, then to answer your question to the Forum: you weren't wrong to defend yourself, and you weren't wrong to point out the obvious what-if concerning his wife and kids.

I'd only add that, in your shoes, I'd have a serious chat with his wife, then I'd have a serious chat with him when he's sober, and I'd recommend he needs to sincerely apologize to everyone there who he cares to have a future with. Vet to vet, I'd help him find a solution to that alcohol-released anger. Plenty of folks to talk to. Depending on his job, four tours in Iraq and Afghanistan could be anything from a Steve Martin film to a Stanley Kubrick film.

Good luck.

 

[MAXman]

Besides not understanding the urge to brag about a fist fight with an in law, over politics no less,

I’m disappointed.

4 combat deployments would mean 4 work ups, and I know that no service teaches the Alfred Hitchcock strangler grip because it’s trash. I’m pretty confident when I say no active duty marine or soldier with that experience level would would pick air choke when going after their wifes pops.
further, even nurses get taught early on effective ways to get out of the Frankenstein choke. I’ll give you a hint, his fingers would be fine.

I don’t know how much of what I’m putting down is getting picked up, I know tone gets lost on forums. I don’t doubt that with a dad with your stories, you’re daughter picked a guy who’s job is “carries the saw and kicks in the door” at his supply shop in his Air National guard unit. And I can see your story has already gone from “I think I embarrassed him” too”the whole family pulled him off”, so I have a sneaky feeling you’ll quote and respond to this post after youtubing some actual martial arts techniques. That’s fine. Just, please, keep in mind, many members of this forum are either currently employed or retired from well paying, competitive, professional jobs with a resume that consists of “can wear uniform, Has experience in violence.”

 

[meljel1]

So the Son-in-law is a four tour I/A Vet, and I've got a few campaigns under my belt prior to his exploits.
Now while we were having a conversation/debate about defunding the police he decided he needed to jump up off the couch and attempt to choke me to death. So I might have screwed up his thumbs & hands a bit while they were affixed to my throat. But I'm more concerned about what I've done to his Combat Physie? How's he supposed to do the last 8 years of his career knowing that he couldn't take out a Senior Citizen from an unsuspecting defenseless position with a 65 lb advantage? Better yet, I told him he needed a little help with alcohol since perhaps his wife & children may not have fared so well if he decided they needed to be attacked after a couple of beers. I'm not a tea toter! But he is the first vet I've told that they need to seek help.

Am I Wrong????????

no you are not wrong, loving someone means telling the truth to them because you care, sometimes love hurts but you doing it for his best interest and the family's interest. Even when they don't want to hear it; they need to but at the same time protect yourself also. He shouldn't have done what He did and crossed that line in many ways.

 

[M118LR]

Snake-Eyes, his wife became the intermediary.
Funny thing is that I have no bruises or marks upon me from the attack, yet all those breaking it up have bruises or more upon them. He has come to me to apologize, but he has left those that extracted him out of the apology loop. We shall be working on the AA angle as time goes along.

MAXman, sorry you're disappointed. Got my hand to hand training from Mike Echanis, so perhaps today's Combat Infantryman might not have the same skillset. Us Old Navy Guys never did much, but you are far superior in H-H training and experience than I could ever hope to be. Yet Uncle Sam sent me into Nam armed with only a knife & a day/night flare. Glad you have fared as well after a Frankenstein choking experience. LOL.

meljel1, It's a fine line. GMA wants to spend her time with Thing 2's children, and financially it's better if she remains within thier household until march. Yet I have reservations about Thing 2's Army Dogface if he can't restrain the rage within himself after a couple of beers. I spent 13 years on the lazyboy after the first time I disintegrated the wall above my spouse in my sleep. Unintended things happen to actual combat veterans. How they are resolved is totally up to the Veteran Him/Her Self. JMHO.

If a Vet crosses a line out of control, perhaps it's best that they cross the line with another Vet that is trained beyond that line that they crossed? But the time has come that intervention is required! I lift a cup or two nightly, so I'll probably be the last to suggest that another Combat Vet needs a little help with a drop or two, but this is one of those moments that I believe I need to put myself aside and look to the betterment of his family. JMHO.

How am I supposed to let GMA live under His roof without me being there and feel secure for her health & wellbeing? Yet the tears she shed when I was going to remove her from the scenario broke my heart. So perhaps it's better that I live in fear from now until March than to cause GMA to break into tears? Is there a right answer?

 

[Snake-Eyes]

I don't know what "GMA" stands for, but it appears to be your daughter?

Again, in your shoes, if my daughter's husband was a physical risk to her health and the health of her kids, then I don't really care "why" he is a risk: she and the kids should be protected. Since I am involved (got choked and witnessed the rage firsthand) and now know the situation, anything that happens from now on, I would ask myself "did I do everything I could to help prevent that?"

In your shoes, I'd pursue the AA solution or a VA solution asap. He needs help, and he is a threat to his wife and kids if nothing changes. If he offered an apology, then he is capable of recognizing he did something wrong, and that means there is hope to reason with him to work towards a solution. With the daughter, I'd try again to see if there is a "plan" clearly in-place in her mind and mine, pertaining to what-if scenarios. Short of me being a 24/7 bodyguard, she is responsible for herself and her kids, so I can't do everything, but I "can" make sure she has thought about the options, the what-ifs, and knows she has support.

Family drama sucks. Domestic abuse and violence are real. Protect the young ones first; help the blood relatives next; then the fellow vets get attention. Or something like that...

 

[M118LR]

I don't know what "GMA" stands for, but it appears to be your daughter?

Again, in your shoes, if my daughter's husband was a physical risk to her health and the health of her kids, then I don't really care "why" he is a risk: she and the kids should be protected. Since I am involved (got choked and witnessed the rage firsthand) and now know the situation, anything that happens from now on, I would ask myself "did I do everything I could to help prevent that?"

In your shoes, I'd pursue the AA solution or a VA solution asap. He needs help, and he is a threat to his wife and kids if nothing changes. If he offered an apology, then he is capable of recognizing he did something wrong, and that means there is hope to reason with him to work towards a solution. With the daughter, I'd try again to see if there is a "plan" clearly in-place in her mind and mine, pertaining to what-if scenarios. Short of me being a 24/7 bodyguard, she is responsible for herself and her kids, so I can't do everything, but I "can" make sure she has thought about the options, the what-ifs, and knows she has support.

Family drama sucks. Domestic abuse and violence are real. Protect the young ones first; help the blood relatives next; then the fellow vets get attention. Or something like that...

GMA = Grandmother of all Things or Grandma. GPA is Grandpa. Short form.

Both Thing2 (Middle daughter and spouse of Soldier) & GMA are giving me water works. Thing 3 & her spouse are uninviting "The Dogfaced One" to Thanksgiving and refusing to travel to Georgia for X-MAS. (Covid + Army doctrine has ruled out the traditional X-MAS @ GMA & GPA's) So the Family Drama intensifies, yet Thing 2's thing1 & thing 2 remain under the umbrella of Uncle Sam's protection.

He has proven to be the most reasonable of all my (Son in Laws) Things Spouses, and I've been his strongest supporter. Which is probably normal as I spent most of my time in service outside the wire, and the majority of his time in service has been inside the wire In Country Combat Zones, either of which makes you an insurance risk. (LOL)

Thing 2's & all the little things are always Welcome under this roof anytime for any reason. So if she is has any concerns it's a couple of hours in the POV away.

So about that Bodyguard thing, perhaps I'm 40 years to late. I mean Navy hand to hand is a 2 week course (Master at ARMs-Brig Chaser) at NAS Ford Island Hawaii. Then H-H Knife Training is a 2 hour seminar at Coronado Cal.(Provided by Mike Echanis) While sitting under a Patriot Battery in Tel Aviv I got a 2 day butt kicking H-H by a bunch of Israelites. But it has proven to be enough in actual "Real World" situations.

So bottom line: When I become proactive vice retroactive or passive aggressive, I only know how to Tragically end the situation. I have no martial arts skills, just H-H experience. Am I actually supposed to ignore the tears & wails of the women?

Yes a Warrior basks in the Laminations of the vanquished, but not those in his clan under his supposed protection?

Yet, nothing has ever happened to those placed in protection under this roof, other than Me! Nor shall it as long as I'm alive and able to defend them. JMHO. But how do defend them off site of thier own choice??

 

[Ric-san]

Here’s my $.02 .Probably not the most PC but get his unit involved if you truly want to help save him. His SgtMaj and the SACO (substance abuse counseling officer) need to be involved Reasoning being if they get him evaluated to see if he really has a “problem”, he’s afforded the legal proper way to solve it via counseling/alchohol abuse classes. It will be a strike against him if he doesn’t comply. In other words, you let Mr I can’t handle alcohol because of PTSD (or fill in the blank). Or you can say, ah fuck it, that could ruin his career. Yep it could OR it may kill him and or someone else.
Not short winded today so here we go. As a career retired Marine I was assigned as the SACO of my unit I was in. I was the Squadron Gunnery Sgt, right hand guy to the unit SgtMaj. I had the pulse of my squadron. I was “voluntold” or assigned and trained as the enlisted SACO. This was right around beginning of Gulf War II. Young Marines kept diming themselves out as dope smokers to not get deployed. This was before any piss tests and trust you me, we had many. While on my last deployment to Okinawa, one of our young top performing Sgts had a international arrest due to drinking and being found by the Japanese Police passed out in some civilians car. There was hell to pay as he was accounted for on the morning report but in the custody of the ground side MP’s. He was kept in Oki on legal hold while we retrograded back stateside. He caught up with us in a week or so later and had orders to Marine Corps Drill Instructor School. I forwarded his paperwork through the chain of command to be evaluated for his drinking arrest. The SgtMaj called me to his office and ripped up the paperwork asking me if I wanted to ruin his career. I explained to the SgtMaj that if his career was ruined it was the Sgts fault, not mine, that he should be evaluated. I was a few months from retirement and to be honest tired of banging my head against a wall. I transferred to the Group for my last six months, the young Sgt continued on. He made it, became a Drill Instructor but in a few months latter died in Water Survival Training on MCRD San Diego on a Monday morning probably after drinking all weekend and not wanting to refuse to train, but couldn’t swim. Yes folks were court martialed, but he’s dead. CNN even covered his story of drowning at a WSQ Training event. Do what you got to do.

 

[M118LR]

Snake-Eyes, Ric-san. if I sound like someone attempting to talk myself out of what I know I would do for/with one of my own Sailors. Please excuse the softness in my head or heart for those within my family group. GMA has suffered so much during my time in service that her tears may cloud my judgement of right & wrong. But his behavior is still unacceptable and must change instantly. JMHO. Now all I have to do is be callused enough to act.