.45 ACP defensive round comparison

[Capt. Dave]

Im 25 and I love my 1911...more so as a bear gun and as a wall hanger. I would probably not pick that over my 9mm Sig P320 Carry. As a battle pistol, both are well beyond proven worthy. However I'd still pick the high cap over the larger round. There's a saying that goes ".45 is better than 9mm, but 17 rounds of 9mm is better than 7 rounds of .45"

On the contrary......15 rounds of .40 cal Federal HST's are better than 17 rounds of 9mm. That's why I bought the new gen 5 glock 22. That's a real deal battle pistol. The recoil does not bother me

115+115 =230. 50 cent the rapper was shot nine times with a 9mm. Have you ever met anyone alive shot nine times with a .45ACP. 45Acp is like a 9mm but for grown ups.

 

[shayne.merritt]

115+115 =230. 50 cent the rapper was shot nine times with a 9mm. Have you ever met anyone alive shot nine times with a .45ACP. 45Acp is like a 9mm but for grown ups.

Yes... Police Officer Timothy Gramin with the Skokie, Illinois Police Department (Northern Chicago) was shot 14 times with a .45, 6 of which were in fatal areas (heart, right lung, left lung, liver, diaphragm, and right kidney) in August of 2008, and he is still alive AND is still a Police Officer, although, he does carry 145 rounds daily as his basic load... Also, Navy SEAL Mike Day was shot 27 times with 7.62 in Fallujah in 2007 while clearing a room and lived to tell about it... He even killed the 3 insurgents that lit him up... You can do amazing things if you never accept a "certain death" fate... The attitude of "I AM gonna win this fight" has seen many Soldiers and Officers (many of which I have witnessed 1st hand as a combat medic) through situations that the should have not lived thru... Never underestimate the power of the mind!!

 

[rossi]

230 grain Hardball...
All you need IMHO..

 

[rossi]

Worked for my Dad in Viet Nam.

 

[SAWMAN]

I watched a bad guy get hit about 7-9 times at 10yds with a 45ACP "GREASE GUN" and he still was able to shoulder and fire a RPG.
He was killed with 4 quick shots from a little Korean guy using a Garand. --- SAWMAN

 

[FLT]

Gentlemen, surly two winks and a cool should have signaled that I wasn’t serious. I’ll take the 45acp as my first choice every time.
cheers

 

[Paul Mormak]

Buahahahaha!!! I love that argument... Too many people get caught up with the caliber, and forget what's actually important... Penetration... The deeper you go, the better ... Hey... That works with other things, too

That's what she keeps telling me, but its all I got.

 

[fl57caveman]

rotf, you might try a different cylinder.....

 

[shayne.merritt]

That's what she keeps telling me, but its all I got.

 

[BowChamp]

That's what she keeps telling me, but its all I got.

SBR?????

 

[SAWMAN]

The 230gr mil ball typically will over penetrate and under expand.
Over the years I have heard different reasoning why this was designed as is.
I just do not feel that this underpowered,over hardened rd is a good man killer at 5 - 15 yds. Perhaps it was designed to easily penetrate extra "stuff" the enemy soldier was carrying on his chest.
I am sure cost was a factor ...... ALWAYS IS. Same with the older 9mm Para.
I would think that the 45ACP would be dropped down to 185 - 200grs MAX as reccomended by the Ordance Developement Dept. in Crane,Ind. in about 1970 or so.
IMO for this 45ACP to remain as is,is extremely sad. But you can imagine how many rds the US and other countries have stockpiled. Just in the US ... tens of millions.
I have personally seen 600,000 stacked in one place. ---- SAWMAN

 

[shayne.merritt]

The 230gr mil ball typically will over penetrate and under expand.
Over the years I have heard different reasoning why this was designed as is.
I just do not feel that this underpowered,over hardened rd is a good man killer at 5 - 15 yds. Perhaps it was designed to easily penetrate extra "stuff" the enemy soldier was carrying on his chest.
I am sure cost was a factor ...... ALWAYS IS. Same with the older 9mm Para.
I would think that the 45ACP would be dropped down to 185 - 200grs MAX as reccomended by the Ordance Developement Dept. in Crane,Ind. in about 1970 or so.
IMO for this 45ACP to remain as is,is extremely sad. But you can imagine how many rds the US and other countries have stockpiled. Just in the US ... tens of millions.
I have personally seen 600,000 stacked in one place. ---- SAWMAN

When I was going through AIT at Ft. Sam, we were told that the Geneva Convention and Hague Declaration decided that fragmenting and hollow point rounds were inhumane because of the excessive soft tissue damage they cause and therefore are banned in warfare. I'm sure the issue of over penetration (not necessarily under expansion) and cost were two huge factors in the military's decision in switching to the 9mm... I'm fairly certain had the military followed Ordinances recommendation in the 70's to change the weight from 230gr to the 180 range, they would be credited with the development of the 40 S&W instead of the FBI a couple decades later... I wish I had a fraction for the rounds AND arms the military has just stashed away in warehouses...

 

[M60Gunner]

The other piece of that three letter agency switch was certain agents who could not handle recoil of the full power 10mm load.

 

[Raven]

sometimes short, slow and fat works just fine....


ask the moro's

When I carried a 45 daily and also owned a 45 carbine with mag compatibility I preferred a wide open +P hollow point in the chamber followed by a high cap mag full of FMJ. Simply for reliable cycling. Hard ball is already a 45, so no worries about opening up, like with smaller caliber 380 and 9mm HP's and praying they open up to the size of a 45 after impact. Hornady proved that most HP are going so fast that they don't open up until almost all the way thru somebody anyways. That exception is the polymer tipped HP (made popular by Hornady) which is forced to open on impact by a cone full of polymer... but sometimes that's a bad thing, like with walls, car sheetmetal, glass and heavy biker leather and helmets. It's all about penetration AND reliable cycling. The latest offering from Hornady that addresses this is the Hornady Handgun Hunter line. They are solid copper polymer tipped HP. Solid copper for like 30% greater penetration AND forced open on impact

 

[SAWMAN]

One of the best deer/hog/coyote rds that I have ever seen was the Double Tap 165gr HP.
I also carried these in my 3" Kimber for SD.
HOT ... LOUD ... PERFECT EXPANSION. Unknown whos bullet. Possibly a special run by Speer or Sierra. ---- SAWMAN

 

[M60Gunner]