Braced Pistols to become SBR's starting in December?

[Misfeed]

If it can be challenged before the publication or 120 day amnesty then yes. Option 2 : everyone registers their braces and the media cant say anything becuase it goes the narrative that gun owners are a bunch of government fearing quacks.Then some smart peope figure out a way for the Supreme Court to take actually take up constitutional gun case and through legal process the NFA is overturned. If I try to wait this out it potentially costs me a couple thousand dollars that I need to buy eggs with.

 

[AK4774]

Ha!View attachment 204841

Just spray that whole thing fde, it’ll blend right in with the table and they’ll never see it when they’re coming around measuring their deeks, I mean barrels.

 

[stage20]

If it can be challenged before the publication or 120 day amnesty then yes. Option 2 : everyone registers their braces and the media cant say anything becuase it goes the narrative that gun owners are a bunch of government fearing quacks.Then some smart peope figure out a way for the Supreme Court to take actually take up constitutional gun case and through legal process the NFA is overturned. If I try to wait this out it potentially costs me a couple thousand dollars that I need to buy eggs with.

Only a couple hundred? That's cheap.

 

[Misfeed]

Where are you buying eggs?

 

[Rational Mind]

If it can be challenged before the publication or 120 day amnesty then yes. Option 2 : everyone registers their braces and the media cant say anything becuase it goes the narrative that gun owners are a bunch of government fearing quacks.Then some smart peope figure out a way for the Supreme Court to take actually take up constitutional gun case and through legal process the NFA is overturned. If I try to wait this out it potentially costs me a couple thousand dollars that I need to buy eggs with.

Ex Post Facto is the argument most law suits against the rule is the most likely path to get this in front of the courts. That should delay the 120 days. Once it reaches the higher courts then the Constitutionality of the NFA can and will most likely be addressed. A couple of thousand dollars to hold out compared to what our founders sacrificed is nothing.

 

[Misfeed]

And what's the plan in the instance its upheld?...much like the NFA for the past 89 years. A lot of people holding out hope are dead from waiting on that one.

 

[Misfeed]

I seem to recall the Hearing Safe Act that was going to pass. Florida would never ban binary triggers. Oregon's law regarding firearms was insane and would never pass. A lot of people are too young to remember that from 1994 to 2004 you couldn't buy an AR. Heller set the precedent so bumpstocks couldnt be banned because there were so many of them. Yes, its overturned but people are in jail and their property was destroyed. Im on board as soon as I see some local political organization moving in that direction. Only thing Ive heard of is the SAF pushing a lawsuit they deferred 2 years ago.

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

I feel bad for all the barrel manufacturers. Gonna see alot of ammo can coffee tables for sale.( barrels as legs)

 

[Rational Mind]

I seem to recall the Hearing Safe Act that was going to pass. Florida would never ban binary triggers. Oregon's law regarding firearms was insane and would never pass. A lot of people are too young to remember that from 1994 to 2004 you couldn't buy an AR. Heller set the precedent so bumpstocks couldnt be banned becasue there were so many of them. Yes, its overturned but people are in jail and their property was destroyed. Im on board as soon as I see some local political organization moving in that direction. Only thing Ive heard of is the SAF pushing a lawsuit they deferred 2 years ago.

Heller was the case that separated the right of the individual over previous cases that applied the right to the militia. Now the Bruen case has strengthened the right of the individual even more by enforcing the right to carry in public. The 94 awb expired after 10 years because it had no effect on gun violence. All 3 of these events and now the overturning of the bumpstock ban only strengthens our case. From the 1960's until the Heller case there was very little activity concerning the 2nd amendment. You've got to also remember what brought these case in front of the courts was people that had been accused of breaking the law. When you've got the full weight of the U.S government trying to make an individual a criminal it is a hell of a fight for the individual. When you've got 10 to 40 million pistol brace owners fighting for their rights the odds get better. If half or more just give up and comply it makes it tougher on everyone else.

 

[Snake-Eyes]

I haven’t read all 293-pages of this infringement, but apparently your “new” “tax-free” “SBR” is possibly subject to 922r compliance rules.

922r is for imported or foreign made rifles. Lots of details just in that, but it isn’t applicable to foreign pistols.

HOWEVER, once you SBR that foreign pistol, it becomes a foreign short-barreled-RIFLE.

So, be careful.

Also, “Glock-type” pistols with pick-a-chassis brace setups? BATFECES says they will be SBRs...

Partial list of commercial models:

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/bracefinalruleguidance-commerciallypdf/download

Partial list of non-commercial DIY examples:

brace_final_rule_guidance-non-commercial | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

www.atf.gov

Wanna SBR it for free during their 120-day trap? Is it an Austrian Glock? Does that make it a 922r headache now? I don’t know. Go spend your free time reading the 293-pages, then spend your $200 on a lawyer...

 

[Misfeed]

Cool. Whats the plan if its upheld?

 

[Snake-Eyes]

Cool. Whats the plan if its upheld?

To each his own, seems like.

You’ve got your plan to cash in on the $200 waivers for firearms you want to SBR.

For those who don’t want to go that route, it seems like the option to just remove the brace isn’t as simple. Still gotta read up on that.

They leave a gray area of SUBjective criteria that says you could have a legit brace for handicapped use. But not really.

I don’t want to be “committing a felony”, but I think it’s BS that my “choices” are to destroy, turn-in, or register my property that was bought quite legally already. There has to be something else.

If an intra-office memo by non-legislators can turn us into Felons effectively overnight, then what respect is due that piece of paper, or the people who wrote it, or the people who would attempt to enforce it?

 

[Misfeed]

A lot of people felt the exact same way during the Firearm Protection Act one year amnesty. Thats why only 250,000 of those transferable firearms legally exist today. If a couple million or so had registered maybe M16 lowers wouldnt be $20k-$40k apiece. I get the "fight the man" but Im not hearing anything other than "be a quiet felon and they will leave you alone".

And man, I agree with you on unelected people trying to make opinions law. But in the same vein that one would chose to ignore or willingly disobey a a rule or law then what respect is going to be given to you by the people that are sworn to uphold it?

 

[Urbanfuturistic]

No one is suggesting anyone catch a felony but I would argue this goes back farther than 1934. This Country was and is based on three primary documents, The Articles of Confederation, The Constitution, and The Bill of Rights. To understand the argument for the Constitution people need to study the Federalist papers written by Jay, Madison, and Hamilton. The Constitution was passed through such a small majority of New York delegates given power to the three branches of Government that Madison drafted the Bill of Rights guaranteeing rights to the the people that the Government could not interfere in. If we compromise on the Bill of Rights I would argue we compromise our Country and everything it was founded upon. The Federalist papers are the best source for the original intent of our Constitution, 84 essays well worth the read. If people don't won't read and learn what they need to know to to fight back against a Government that has got out of control than maybe I can recommend 1984, it's available on YouTube as an audio book. Knowledge is power and that is where our true strength is. We better start using it. As I stated earlier the original intent of the NFA was to outlaw handguns and the SBR and SBS were a way the activist saw a way that people could get around the prohibition of handguns. We fought against the prohibition of handguns and won, unfortunately the SBR and SBS parts were left in the act because at the time they were a non issue. This can be fought through the courts and we can keep our rights, possibly restore some that were lost. To just voluntarily comply with a rule, not a law that violates the Constitution and Bill of rights makes no sense to me.

I get what your saying, but who wants to take the chance on non-compliance, and a court loss(both a challenge to this, and your loss in court)? I realize that's what they're banking on, that most people will just take the amnesty, and they can sort the ones who don't later. But how long is a court case going to take? 6 months? 1 year? 5 years? If we could be guaranteed they'd move fast, and have it wrapped up before the amnesty period ends, then I'd say people are rushing to throw away their rights.

Hey Bruce, in reference to

“Who's going to be walking around the ranges with a tape measure ready to snitch to daddy government?”

About 49% of the population here and at the range.

I haven’t even heard of this until recently and thought the anti brace bs had been shelved. Im wondering what about a braced lower with 16” carbine/rifle upper? And does this supposedly apply to every firearm potentially fitted with a brace? All others that do not have a buffer tube will be much less user friendly.

Ok maybe I was a little harsh on my estimate of 49 percentile, doubtful that there are that many democrats that join firearm forums so will say at least 25% to sound hopeful. But there are many DINOs and RINOs circling the wagons and drain.

The percentage may not be that large, but there will even be people on your team who will inform if they think someone is not compliant.

Not the guy in question lol but I bet they got a lot more to worry about then someone saying things on the internet, hell even saying something on the internet like "100% of ATF agents wives have boyfriends" is still perfectly legal and should be encouraged. Speech such as
"Those spineless worms who work for the ATF don't know what it means to be a man."
or
"The only thing the ATF is good at is shooting dogs and burning children alive."
are perfect examples of the free speech that our founding fathers fought and died for.

We don't live in England yet, where any speech can land you in trouble. The difference is the perceived threat. No one is going to bat a lash, and some will even get a chuckle out of jokes about ATF agents wives having boyfriends. Start talking about sending lead down range and the game changes.

I'll be happy to join anyone at a peaceful protest of this rule. When is it? Or if someone that has a better grasp of the english language than I wants to draft a letter to our congressman Ill cosign onto that. If you or anyone else wants to run for office on a return to the constitution, Ill vote for you. As expensive as eggs are at the moment I cant chip in for a lawyer but I can give my time.
I get that we need to fight back against this but where is the fight?

And to add to the tape measure comment, Ive had several people ask if some of the AR pistols I was selling on here were SBRs or compliant with the law at that time.

This. Which Saturday, at what time, and where do I have to show up to protest? Where is the well written, comprehensive, not full of hyperbole cut-and-paste letter we can all send to our congress-critters?

I don’t want to be “committing a felony”, but I think it’s BS that my “choices” are to destroy, turn-in, or register my property that was bought quite legally already. There has to be something else.

If an intra-office memo by non-legislators can turn us into Felons effectively overnight, then what respect is due that piece of paper, or the people who wrote it, or the people who would attempt to enforce it?

That's on Congress. They need to call these people onto the carpet. I'd have these cats down there first thing Tuesday morning wondering when they got elected, and where in the Constitution it gave them the power to write laws. I'd even furnish them a copy of the Articles of Confederation, The Bill of Rights, and the Constitution, and give them time to find it, televised, in front of god and everyone.

Heller was the case that separated the right of the individual over previous cases that applied the right to the militia. Now the Bruen case has strengthened the right of the individual even more by enforcing the right to carry in public. The 94 awb expired after 10 years because it had no effect on gun violence. All 3 of these events and now the overturning of the bumpstock ban only strengthens our case. From the 1960's until the Heller case there was very little activity concerning the 2nd amendment. You've got to also remember what brought these case in front of the courts was people that had been accused of breaking the law. When you've got the full weight of the U.S government trying to make an individual a criminal it is a hell of a fight for the individual. When you've got 10 to 40 million pistol brace owners fighting for their rights the odds get better. If half or more just give up and comply it makes it tougher on everyone else.

The 94 AWB expired because someone had the sense to argue that it should have a sunset, and got that included.
This idea that compliance now means people are giving up. It just...it's self-defeating. We always project this idea that we are the law-abiding citizenry. And by and large, we are. But the fight doesn't end if we comply. It's just a safer fight that more people will be willing to engage in if you have your affairs in order.

 

[Snake-Eyes]

A lot of people felt the exact same way during the Firearm Protection Act one year amnesty. Thats why only 250,000 of those transferable firearms legally exist today. If a couple million or so had registered maybe M16 lowers wouldnt be $20k-$40k apiece. I get the "fight the man" but Im not hearing anything other than "be a quiet felon and they will leave you alone".

And man, I agree with you on unelected people trying to make opinions law. But in the same vein that one would chose to ignore or willingly disobey a a rule or law then what respect is going to be given to you by the people that are sworn to uphold it?

I’m not advocating to be any kind of felon, even an illegitimate one in the eyes of this latest piece of BATFECES garbage, None of my stuff is illegal now. I intend to stay that way. There has to be another option than destroy, turn-in, or register. I’m looking for that.

As for respect from ”the people that are sworn to uphold it”, they SHOULDN’T be “upholding” any portion of this illegal and UNCONSTITUTIONAL garbage. They have my respect until the moment they willingly break their oath. Same as how I’d feel about brothers and sisters in uniform who would piss on the oath due to greed, laziness, or inherent evil.

The moment someone would be stupid enough to try to enforce these memos with up-to-and-including deadly force, they’ve Already shown they have zero respect for their intended target. They are saying they value an Unconstitutional piece of toilet paper more than their own life. If their target was me, then they would be saying they value my property more than their own life.


I’m not a felon
I’m not a criminal.
I refuse to be treated like one.

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

Well with one of mine I have no choice. Can't mod it to a slick tube. Only mod would be chop the tube off. Factory built. Great shooter too.

 

[Rational Mind]

I get what your saying, but who wants to take the chance on non-compliance, and a court loss(both a challenge to this, and your loss in court)? I realize that's what they're banking on, that most people will just take the amnesty, and they can sort the ones who don't later. But how long is a court case going to take? 6 months? 1 year? 5 years? If we could be guaranteed they'd move fast, and have it wrapped up before the amnesty period ends, then I'd say people are rushing to throw away their rights.

The percentage may not be that large, but there will even be people on your team who will inform if they think someone is not compliant.

We don't live in England yet, where any speech can land you in trouble. The difference is the perceived threat. No one is going to bat a lash, and some will even get a chuckle out of jokes about ATF agents wives having boyfriends. Start talking about sending lead down range and the game changes.

This. Which Saturday, at what time, and where do I have to show up to protest? Where is the well written, comprehensive, not full of hyperbole cut-and-paste letter we can all send to our congress-critters?

That's on Congress. They need to call these people onto the carpet. I'd have these cats down there first thing Tuesday morning wondering when they got elected, and where in the Constitution it gave them the power to write laws. I'd even furnish them a copy of the Articles of Confederation, The Bill of Rights, and the Constitution, and give them time to find it, televised, in front of god and everyone.

The 94 AWB expired because someone had the sense to argue that it should have a sunset, and got that included.
This idea that compliance now means people are giving up. It just...it's self-defeating. We always project this idea that we are the law-abiding citizenry. And by and large, we are. But the fight doesn't end if we comply. It's just a safer fight that more people will be willing to engage in if you have your affairs in order.

The sunset clause is what enabled the AWB to be passed by getting the votes they needed. As far as compliance I'm not sure how that plays out because Florida Statute 790.335 basically says it's illegal for any government entity, or public or private individual to knowingly keep any list, record, or registry of privately owned firearms or any list, record , or registry of the owners of those firearms. This is where the Bill of Rights come into play. The founders new through the consolidation of power with the federal government that States and individuals rights would be tested through that same Government that would inevitably attempt to seize more power against the States and individuals. This is what caused the arguments between the Federalist and antifederalist. Hamilton argued against the Bill of Rights because he felt it would cause " problems " . This is exactly the reason Madison drafted The Bill of Rights to specifically state the rights that the Federal Government had no jurisdiction over. I understand people feeling like they're getting a free 200 dollar tax stamp. You are but what will be the ultimate cost in the end. I was a teenager working in my fathers ffl when the AWB went into effect and saw my AR's value jump to 2500 each or more, got to see Pistols in the showcases with 15 rd magazines that we could only sell to law enforcement. I watched it go down, I thought it was ridiculous then and I think it's ridiculous now. I've paid my 200 dollars for tax stamps so I could protect my hearing but enough is enough. If complying means registration which is against state laws and leads to a path toward confiscation by a tyrannical government then I will not comply with registration, I'll simply throw 16" uppers on the ones I can and remove the braces on the ones I can't until this plays out in the courts. There is a reason why registration is illegal and that is because history has shown registration leads to confiscation. Most of us do everything by the law and avoid any situation that could lead to losing our rights and will continue to act in the same manner. We love our families, our Country, don't want our dogs shot because we love them also. I will support my local Constitutional Sheriff, and keep pushing State legislation to restore rights that were removed from us, ( Do people even realize Florida's gun laws were initially set up to prevent blacks from having firearms ? ) and I will donate to organizations that fight for our rights on a State and Federal level such as the GOA, Not the NRA and I'm saying that as a former NRA instructor. We have the best opportunity we've ever had at overturning so many unconstitutional laws that I've seen in my lifetime by current court rulings and now this massive overreach by the ATF. You can stay legal without registration and that's the path I choose and wish others would choose also but to each their own.

 

[G-rat]

the only way to stop the overreaching atf, doj and da gubmint will be mass non-compliance. 40,000,000 very angry tax paying, formerly law abiding patriots would be one hell of a statement... i know where i stand, hows about the rest of you guys?

 

[Southernlost]

Braces are destined to be nothing more than a crappy memory after this

 

[G-rat]