Florida deputy that shot and killed airman terminated

[FNHman]

Do you know first hand this situation happened?

Do you know first hand like you said "There are no coincidences"

 

[BluesBrother]

Because some kid was made fun of in school and later became a cop so he could seek his wrath and justice on the world that hurt him.

And that is God's plan according to you?

It's not? If not "God's plan", whose? Just sayin'

 

[FNHman]

It's not? If not "God's plan", whose? Just sayin'

If one truly believes in the Bible and everything is God's plan, then one must ask himself why God is making me write these things for you to read and comprehend. Are my words not just God's words then.... sent to save you from your wicked ways and thoughts?

 

[BluesBrother]

Because some kid was made fun of in school and later became a cop so he could seek his wrath and justice on the world that hurt him.

It's not? If not "God's plan", whose? Just sayin'

No, I don't know first hand of a situation like you refer to. It happens and the drive by media sensationalizes it and the listening public want to defund the police as a result. Ask chicagoans and oragonians, and portlanders, how that's working out. In these situation emotions are in charge not common sense. I don't make judgments on isolated situations.

 

[DustyDog]

If it's your time, than yes that might happen to you. But why were you in his presence in that situation in the first place. It may also happen at the grocery store without a cop, or the church without a cop, or running in the park without a cop. I believe everything happens for a reason. We may not know the reason or ever learn the reason. You can go down all sorts of rabbit holes and never, ever know why something happens. Always after a reason that something happened the way it did is a fools errand. There are no coincidences. I can count on one hand or less the times this happened to me. And I've been around a looong time.

Yep... the Fortson shooting was an awful incident, made worse by facts that came to light afterwards... but you cannot use those facts in an assessment as to whether the shooting was justified.

Hell, I don't think it was a "perfect example of a justifiable shooting", though justifiable nonetheless based on the facts that were known to the deputy at the time (i.e., on a possible DV call, guy opens the door with a gun in his hand), but the difference between the Fortson deputy not getting shot, and the cop below getting shot is only about a quarter-second in reaction time, so, take your pick as to which one you'd rather be: The QUICK? Or The DEAD (or at least the guy with his right arm shot off)?



IN FACT, if Fortson was White and the deputy was Black, half of the people complaining about the shooting would instead be praising the deputy for beating a drawn gun! There is no doubt in my mind. A lot of virtue signalers about, and studies have proven that they do not actually believe the crap they're talking... they're just trying to increase their "social credit scores"

https://reason.com/2020/07/07/narci...gage-in-virtuous-victim-signaling-says-study/

 

[BluesBrother]

If one truly believes in the Bible and everything is God's plan, then one must ask himself why God is making me write these things for you to read and comprehend. Are my words not just God's words then.... sent to save you from your wicked ways and thoughts?

I'm going to get in trouble for this. You fail to mention the "other" being that can control your actions.

If one truly believes in the Bible and everything is God's plan, then one must ask himself why God is making me write these things for you to read and comprehend. Are my words not just God's words then.... sent to save you from your wicked ways and thoughts?

Do you believe God gave man a free will? I'm getting close to my inability to use the Bible and God as a reference. I just remember hearing things in between naps in church.

 

[Welldoya]

your post isn't clear. It almost looks like you believe that people need a reason to carry a weapon and if you don't agree with that reason it's ok for cops to shoot them?

No one needs to explain anything or even have a reason to protect themselves from any harm or deadly animal attacks. Carring a gun isn't a death sentence no matter what psycho cops want to believe.

Yes, I believe that people need a legitimate reason to have an AR slung over their shoulder in a city park where, most likely, it’s not lawful to discharge a firearm and there is no potential threat in sight.
In this society, with crazies everywhere, and potential terrorists coming across the border every day, we really can’t afford to not check out things that don’t look right.
If you and your family were enjoying a picnic in that park and saw this guy with an AR, would you be nervous and want him checked out?

 

[FNHman]

Yes, I believe that people need a legitimate reason to have an AR slung over their shoulder in a city park where, most likely, it’s not lawful to discharge a firearm and there is no potential threat in sight.
In this society, with crazies everywhere, and potential terrorists coming across the border every day, we really can’t afford to not check out things that don’t look right.
If you and your family were enjoying a picnic in that park and saw this guy with an AR, would you be nervous and want him checked out?

I've never called the cops in my entire life unless I was calling to complain about the cops.

Wait... I did call one time because I heard the neighbor getting stabbed on Belle Medow Blvd and screaming for help. I tried to help and was ready to shoot the person but he never came into my yard so I had to wait on the cop or I would have been felony trespassing. Funny how the rules are written to help the criminals. They made the rules so I was useless even with a gun in my hand while she was being stabbed.

It's a messed up world they created for us to abide by. Now be a good citizen and turn in your guns.

 

[Snake-Eyes]

Well he knew exactly who was knocking on the door. The video shown is not complete, he banged on the door and was announcing himself by yelling. Who knows, maybe the guy answered the door in hopes of getting shot, suicide by cop. He was engaged in a loud disturbance which sounded as though two people were inside. Not just to the cop, but also to the person who called.

And the deputy knew that beforehand HOW?!?

You CANNOT use facts that came to light after the shooting to decide if it was justified. For all the deputy knew, the female could have been dead or dying inside the unit, just like in the example below.

The deputy pounds on the door and eventually announces who he is. The resident opens the door and is standing there with a gun pointed at the ground.

Both of you quoted me, so I’ll respond to both the same: the deputy was supposed to be the “armed professional”. The deputy instigated that interaction. Did he honestly think he knocked on a cop-killer’s door, and the cop-killer was now opening the door, presenting a perfect shot for the deputy before raising his cop-killing gun? The FIRST WORDS the deputy said directly to the Airman were AFTER the deputy shot him. Bang bang bang bang bang bang…. Drop the gun.


I’m using the facts as they played out, and that shooting is only “justified” to people who are WAY TOO COMFORTABLE with the status quo default of “I’m a LEO, and I’m allowed to use deadly force to make you do what I want.”

The job of a LEO is wrought with hazards, no doubt. God Bless and watch over every single one of the good ones.

However, if the nerves are wound too tight or the judgement isn’t quite up to task, then that LEO needs to not being wielding up-to-and-including deadly force that day.

In the military, if you aren’t physically or mentally able to do the mission, you’re supposed to self-identify and fix the issue or step aside, if at all able. No secrets, no BS “Pride”, no hidden agendas. Let your team or commander know what is going on, so there aren’t any surprises at the worst possible time. I expect nothing less from the LEO’s who walk around with a sacred public trust. That deputy was too quick to shoot an unknown person in their own home. I seriously doubt that was his first “hiccup” at work.

That Airman did nothing ILLEGAL, and he was killed because a LEO panicked.

 

[D.Profile Unchained]

Still seems that no one actually took time to read the article posted in Air Force Times.It could possibly shed some light on a few questions and assumptions

 

[D.Profile Unchained]

Still seems that no one actually took time to read the article posted in Air Force Times.It could possibly shed some light on a few questions and assumptions

If it's 100% true what the article says then that department has been to an apartment on that fourth floor 10 times in eight months.How do they not at least suspect that it's probably the same apartment from previous reports?I bet the same couple's still there today living exactly the same way they always have

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

I've never called the cops in my entire life unless I was calling to complain about the cops.

Wait... I did call one time because I heard the neighbor getting stabbed on Belle Medow Blvd and screaming for help. I tried to help and was ready to shoot the person but he never came into my yard so I had to wait on the cop or I would have been felony trespassing. Funny how the rules are written to help the criminals. They made the rules so I was useless even with a gun in my hand while she was being stabbed.

BS.

Either 1) you’re embellishing your story; 2) you don’t know the law; or 3) you’re a coward. Either way you failed.

Florida’s Use of Deadly Force Law certainly allows you to inject yourself into a situation and use DF in defense of self OR OTHERS.

Your continued bashing of LE is well established IMO.

You expect people to believe you had to lawfully stand by while someone got stabbed while screaming for help vs. face a trespassing charge? Sell that shit to someone else.

 

[FLT]

Wow, cop was at wrong place, and killed someone in the saftey of his own castle. Cop should be tied to a pole in the downtown square and beaten by the public for weeks.

Not to change your mind but one day a cop will make a random judgement call and probably take you out by accident because he was in fear of his life..... maybe you where following his orders to get your ID during a traffic stop for a burned out tail light and your wallet in your hand made him think you hand a gun in your hand and maybe an acorn fell from a tree at the same time and he unloads his entire mag into your face. Maybe someone on this forum will post that the officer was right for his actions and no one can change their mind.

Be safe out there brother. Don't reach for anything tooI quickly.

I was referring to the idiot in the park carrying the AR. To get footage for his U tube channel.
My apologies for the confusion.

 

[FNHman]

BS.

Either 1) you’re embellishing your story; 2) you don’t know the law; or 3) you’re a coward. Either way you failed.

Florida’s Use of Deadly Force Law certainly allows you to inject yourself into a situation and

BS.

Either 1) you’re embellishing your story; 2) you don’t know the law; or 3) you’re a coward. Either way you failed.

Florida’s Use of Deadly Force Law certainly allows you to inject yourself into a situation and use DF in defense of self OR OTHERS.

Your continued bashing of LE is well established IMO.

You expect people to believe you had to lawfully stand by while someone got stabbed while screaming for help vs. face a trespassing charge? Sell that shit to someone else.

Your more than welcome to request the 911 phone call from escambia county records and see the record of this "story" as your calling it. You know nothing of what you posted trying to call me out. Your clearly upset that I call out piece of sh!t police that kill innocent poeple. Why does that make you soo mad?

So if you need any assistance in getting this factual info about the stabbing let me know and I'll try to help best I can. I can even give you the house address that the stabbing took place at. Since it was a stabbing I'm sure there is still plenty of records on it. I did not bash cops with this specific story but I did complain about the laws that prevent me from accessing a neighbors property with a gun as that is a trespass felony charge and you know it. I was not in a public place or maybe thing would be different.

And I'm only up this late tonight because I just came from another emergent procedure saving someone's life again... that makes about several thousands lives Ive saved now.

How many people have you killed?

 

[DustyDog]

That Airman did nothing ILLEGAL...

And AGAIN, the deputy knew that beforehand HOW?!? Cops are not required to hold a trial and find you guilty before they can investigate a complaint. And the airman's name was Fortson. The fact that he was an airman tells us nothing significant about him. An "airman" shot up the Sutherland Springs church in Texas, killing 26 people. Here's a recent story re: another "airman":

https://www.irishstar.com/news/us-news/airman-charged-10-counts-raping-32983497

There seems to be two camps re: scenarios such as the Fortson incident:

1. People who are willing to risk throwing their life away because someone they can't identify/are not expecting/don't know knocks on their door, and they feel compelled to open it, whether armed or unarmed.

2. People who are not willing to risk throwing their life away unless that someone breaks down the door, which makes sense since that someone has manifested a direct threat to your life already.

Here are a few of the former, and note how foolish they look now:



AND



AND



If you haven't watched the Tatum video, check it out. It could save your life:



Funny how those who think Fortson's actions make sense in light of his Second Amendment rights ignore the fact that his Fourth Amendment rights meant that he didn't have to open the door... even for the cops! PROBLEM = SOLVED, just like Tatum said! Use your head before your weapon!

 

[Snake-Eyes]

And AGAIN, the deputy knew that beforehand HOW?!?

So, it’s illegal to have a gun in your hand in your own home?
It’s illegal to hold that gun in your hand in your own home?
Did he ever point that gun at the deputy?
Was he ever told to drop the weapon BEFORE he was shot?

If I’m on my porch cleaning a firearm, and a deputy walks up to “investigate a complaint”, you’re saying he’s allowed to shoot me because I have a gun on my property?

Cops are not required to hold a trial and find you guilty before they can investigate a complaint.

How much “investigating” did the deputy do? How many questions did he ask before he shot the Airman? How much of a “domestic violence altercation” did he witness?
He pounded on a door, the resident answered with a gun in his hand, and the deputy shot first, then said “drop the gun”.

And the airman's name was Fortson. The fact that he was an airman tells us nothing significant about him.

Nothing significant? Well, to ME (and arguably many others around here) it ACTUALLY IS significant. So I’ll refer to him as Airman, thank you very much.

Perhaps I shouldn’t refer to the deputy as “deputy”, then, because that’s nothing significant about him either? Except that his job title is the only reason he isnt already in JAIL. Gotcha…

An "airman" shot up the Sutherland Springs church in Texas, killing 26 people. Here's a recent story re: another "airman":

https://www.irishstar.com/news/us-news/airman-charged-10-counts-raping-32983497

You put “airman” in quotes a few more times and show your true colors some more.
There are bad seeds in every profession. That doesn’t mean Fortson gets a downgrade “nothing significant” BullShit appraisal.

You are pissing up a tree into the wind with your dismissive and condescending BS. Especially around here.

There seems to be two camps re: scenarios such as the Fortson incident:

1. People who are willing to risk throwing their life away because someone they can't identify/are not expecting/don't know knocks on their door, and they feel compelled to open it, whether armed or unarmed.

2. People who are not willing to risk throwing their life away unless that someone breaks down the door, which makes sense since that someone has manifested a direct threat to your life already.

Here are a few of the former, and note how foolish they look now:



AND



AND

It’s already been said: answer your door to strangers with the appropriate caution.
The Airman was young and responded to the situation differently than many of us probably would’ve, but he STILL did NOTHING ILLEGAL. Ill-advisable? Maybe. ILLEGAL and worth being SHOT FIRST? Are you seriously advocating the deputy did nothing wrong?

If you haven't watched the Tatum video, check it out. It could save your life:



Funny how those who think Fortson's actions make sense in light of his Second Amendment rights ignore the fact that his Fourth Amendment rights meant that he didn't have to open the door... even for the cops! PROBLEM = SOLVED, just like Tatum said! Use your head before your weapon!

Sure. Don’t open the door. That works for when there’s a door there.

The bigger picture that you seem to overlook is that the LEO felt perfectly fine using deadly force on an unknown person in their own home without a single word or “investigative” effort. And why? Because the LEO felt threatened. He felt threatened in a situation that he started.
He got fired, but he’s not under arrest.

But if one of us started an argument in someone else’s home, and shot someone because we “felt threatened”, we wouldn’t be able to claim self-defense. We’d be under arrest and in jail.

Think about that.

 

[DustyDog]

So, it’s illegal to have a gun in your hand in your own home?
It’s illegal to hold that gun in your hand in your own home?
Did he ever point that gun at the deputy?
Was he ever told to drop the weapon BEFORE he was shot?

If I’m on my porch cleaning a firearm, and a deputy walks up to “investigate a complaint”, you’re saying he’s allowed to shoot me because I have a gun on my property?




How much “investigating” did the deputy do? How many questions did he ask before he shot the Airman? How much of a “domestic violence altercation” did he witness?
He pounded on a door, the resident answered with a gun in his hand, and the deputy shot first, then said “drop the gun”.



Nothing significant? Well, to ME (and arguably many others around here) it ACTUALLY IS significant. So I’ll refer to him as Airman, thank you very much.

Perhaps I shouldn’t refer to the deputy as “deputy”, then, because that’s nothing significant about him either? Except that his job title is the only reason he isnt already in JAIL. Gotcha…




You put “airman” in quotes a few more times and show your true colors some more.
There are bad seeds in every profession. That doesn’t mean Fortson gets a downgrade “nothing significant” BullShit appraisal.

You are pissing up a tree into the wind with your dismissive and condescending BS. Especially around here.



It’s already been said: answer your door to strangers with the appropriate caution.
The Airman was young and responded to the situation differently than many of us probably would’ve, but he STILL did NOTHING ILLEGAL. Ill-advisable? Maybe. ILLEGAL and worth being SHOT FIRST? Are you seriously advocating the deputy did nothing wrong?



Sure. Don’t open the door. That works for when there’s a door there.

The bigger picture that you seem to overlook is that the LEO felt perfectly fine using deadly force on an unknown person in their own home without a single word or “investigative” effort. And why? Because the LEO felt threatened. He felt threatened in a situation that he started.
He got fired, but he’s not under arrest.

But if one of us started an argument in someone else’s home, and shot someone because we “felt threatened”, we wouldn’t be able to claim self-defense. We’d be under arrest and in jail.

Think about that.

Hey! You have the right to be stupid, just like Fortson. No wonder this country is going down the tubes, with people like you voting. You literally make no damned sense.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

Your more than welcome to request the 911 phone call from escambia county records and see the record of this "story" as your calling it. You know nothing of what you posted trying to call me out. Your clearly upset that I call out piece of sh!t police that kill innocent poeple. Why does that make you soo mad?

So if you need any assistance in getting this factual info about the stabbing let me know and I'll try to help best I can. I can even give you the house address that the stabbing took place at. Since it was a stabbing I'm sure there is still plenty of records on it. I did not bash cops with this specific story but I did complain about the laws that prevent me from accessing a neighbors property with a gun as that is a trespass felony charge and you know it. I was not in a public place or maybe thing would be different.

And I'm only up this late tonight because I just came from another emergent procedure saving someone's life again... that makes about several thousands lives Ive saved now.

How many people have you killed?

You clearly stated you couldn’t help a person actively being stabbed or you would face trespassing charges… that’s a complete load of crap.

Not doubting the incident, just calling BS on the couldn’t help lawfully statement… I stand by that.

I have no problem with people calling out bad actors in LE as it’s necessary for the betterment of the system, I’ve openly criticized LE here with no problem.

Why would you be interested in knowing about someone I killed?

 

[Snake-Eyes]

Hey! You have the right to be stupid, just like Fortson. No wonder this country is going down the tubes, with people like you voting. You literally make no damned sense.

Feel better now that you’ve resorted to calling me and the dead Airman “stupid”?
Feel better now that you’re blaming me for the downward spiral of this Nation?
Great. I’m so happy for you.

Do you think you are able to now answer the questions I asked during the more civilized portion of this discussion? The ones you just quoted?

Of course, since my typed words “literally” don’t make sense to you, perhaps you can answer just these two questions:

1) What exactly did the Airman do that was ILLEGAL?
2) What exactly did the Airman do that warranted him being SHOT IMMEDIATELY?

 

[ABlaster]

The bigger picture that you seem to overlook is that the LEO felt perfectly fine using deadly force on an unknown person in their own home without a single word or “investigative” effort. And why? Because the LEO felt threatened. He felt threatened in a situation that he started.
He got fired, but he’s not under arrest.

But if one of us started an argument in someone else’s home, and shot someone because we “felt threatened”, we wouldn’t be able to claim self-defense. We’d be under arrest and in jail.

Anyone can use deadly force if they feel threatened and the court decides it was reasonable to do so. Also, and super importantly, whether or not it was reasonable is based on the facts the person knew at the time of the application of DF, not with the 20/20 clarity of hindsight.

The deputy didn't start the situation, he was sent there. Saying he started it makes it sound like he just picked a door and started knocking, but that may just be a matter of perspective.

In watching the video, I do think the deputy was too quick on the trigger. Just my opinion. I could make an argument that what he did was legal, but I know I probably wouldn't have pulled the trigger nor looked at myself in the mirror afterwards if I had. He was fired, and he may yet be indicted so he's not out of the woods yet on that. I'm not DD, but I can answer your two questions, and you aren't going to like the answers.

1) He didn't do anything illegal, but that doesn't matter. If you do something that is perfectly legal but an objectively reasonable person would perceive it as a lethal force threat they can use lethal force against you. It doesn't matter that what you were doing was legal, it matters that what you were doing would be perceived as a threat. I've read enough of your posts that I know that isn't going to sit well, but it's the truth. If someone started shooting at you (or so you thought) and you drew and blasted them but they were really shooting at a threat behind you that you didn't see you would almost certainly not be prosecuted. What they did was 100% legal and even attempting to benefit you, but they're dead and you're probably not going to go to jail for it.

2) Like I posted before, if someone has a gun in their hand down by their side and you have your gun up and pointed at them, they can still raise and fire 1-3 shots at you before you can react. As a person who carries a gun around every day (I'm assuming you do but maybe not) you need to know how far behind the action/reaction curve you really are. It is non-intuitive, for sure, but I've run the scenario dozens of times and the very best you can do is shoot simultaneously and hope the other person misses and you don't. A gun held by someone's side is legit just as dangerous as if it was already pointed. The only way it is inferior is because to beat the pointed gun you don't have time to aim so it's point shooting vs at least partially aimed fire, but the speed favors the person who moves first. He may have felt the need to shoot immediately because he probably has run the same scenarios I have and knew he wouldn't be able to beat the other guy to the first shot.

I think the question is going to be whether or not the totality of the circumstances would lead a reasonable officer to the conclusion that the Airman was a threat. I could argue either way because he certainly had the capacity to shoot before the deputy could, but just being behind the curve isn't enough to justify DF "just in case" the guy was a bad actor.

FYI - It took me about an hour to put this together, so forgive me if you respond and I don't get back to it right away.